Switching handlebars: Solutions for quick cable interchange

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rfryer
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Joined: 7 Feb 2013, 3:58pm

Re: Switching handlebars: Solutions for quick cable interchange

Postby rfryer » 17 Dec 2019, 9:14am

I'm pretty sure that Moulton once did a cable separator for the front brake, which had the inner separator inside a cage, effectively creating a short bare cable run. I can't find any evidence of it, though.

PT1029
Posts: 720
Joined: 16 Apr 2012, 9:20pm

Re: Switching handlebars: Solutions for quick cable interchange

Postby PT1029 » 17 Dec 2019, 9:25am

Why 3?
My guess is rear brake, rear gear, front gear cables.
If you are splitting a frame into 2 (S&S joints), the front brake cable won't need splitting as the lever and brake are both (hopefully!) on the same half.

DNC123

Re: Switching handlebars: Solutions for quick cable interchange

Postby DNC123 » 17 Dec 2019, 9:43am

Mick F wrote:
CX-3 wrote:Middleburn Oilers would solve the problem ......

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cables/jtek ... ck-3-pack/
They won't disconnect anything though.

Separate subject ...... why THREE in a pack?

Agreed, they won't, but if you are changing bars than you will have to disconnect the cables at some point. You are also likely to find that cables fray at the end and will need to be renewed, from the levers backwards. Seems like OP is making an awful lot of problems for himself whilst trying to find some unachievable Utopia.

Three in a pack? (doesn't everything come in a pack of three? It did when I bought such things!) You put one on each cable near the bars to enable easy splitting and lubrication, and one on the long rear cable just for lubrication. Simples!!!

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Switching handlebars: Solutions for quick cable interchange

Postby Brucey » 17 Dec 2019, 9:46am

PT1029 wrote:Why 3?
My guess is rear brake, rear gear, front gear cables.
If you are splitting a frame into 2 (S&S joints), the front brake cable won't need splitting as the lever and brake are both (hopefully!) on the same half.


how is three cable oilers going to help with that...?.... :wink:

rfryer wrote:I'm pretty sure that Moulton once did a cable separator for the front brake, which had the inner separator inside a cage, effectively creating a short bare cable run. I can't find any evidence of it, though.


that is the sort of thing that could work, I'd have said. But making it both QD and unlike a funnel for rainwater to get inside the cables would be very difficult.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DNC123

Re: Switching handlebars: Solutions for quick cable interchange

Postby DNC123 » 17 Dec 2019, 9:51am

Hell's teeth!!!! Three oilers are £4.99. And you are all arguing about whether to buy them or not. Only miserable old gits will think that is money down the drain.
Shakes head and wanders off slowly to bang head against a brick wall.

pwa
Posts: 11239
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Switching handlebars: Solutions for quick cable interchange

Postby pwa » 17 Dec 2019, 10:02am

I admire all this ingenuity, but I find something as small as switching wheels on a bike a bit of an unwelcome delay when I want to just get out and enjoy a break in the weather. I'd recommend just having different bikes for different jobs, each ready and waiting when you need it. Having more than one bike has the additional advantage of allowing you to do work on one bike without that meaning you have nothing to ride until the work is finished. The initial financial outlay is obviously a barrier, but each bike gets a lot less use than one bike on its own would, so the components on each of the (say) three bikes will last longer than the components on one bike in a one bike fleet.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Switching handlebars: Solutions for quick cable interchange

Postby Brucey » 17 Dec 2019, 10:09am

CX-3 wrote:Hell's teeth!!!! Three oilers are £4.99. And you are all arguing about whether to buy them or not. Only miserable old gits will think that is money down the drain.
Shakes head and wanders off slowly to bang head against a brick wall.


speaking as a miserable old git I would point out that the problem is not in any way solved by introducing cable oilers into the arrangement; there is precious little difference between using them as you propose and simply pulling the cable housing out of the shifters/brakes/cable stops; you still need to disconnect the inner cables somewhere.

So the main issue is that it is not terribly helpful to install cable oilers. The fact that they cost £4.99 (plus p&p) is not the main objection to them but might be important to some folk.

I can think of hundreds of things that cost £4.99 (plus p&p) and that don't really help.... :wink:

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DNC123

Re: Switching handlebars: Solutions for quick cable interchange

Postby DNC123 » 17 Dec 2019, 10:23am

The basic problem is that OP and all his apologists want a system that cannot, does not and will never exist.
If you want to swap bars you will have problems with cables. Di2 might solve some of that for gears (but no one on here will spend that sort of money) and brakes will still have to be disconnected. Then cables fray and have to be replaced.
A pipe dream from start to finish.

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Mick F
Spambuster
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Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Switching handlebars: Solutions for quick cable interchange

Postby Mick F » 17 Dec 2019, 10:32am

How about thinking outside the box.
If the brake levers and the gear controls weren't on the handlebars .......... Hey Presto!
If the bike was a fixed wheel, all you would need is the single front brake.

As kids, we experimented in having the rear brake lever on the cross-bar. It was great! :D
Loads of skids when you slammed it down! :D
Mick F. Cornwall

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RickH
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Location: Horwich, Lancs.

Re: Switching handlebars: Solutions for quick cable interchange

Postby RickH » 17 Dec 2019, 12:10pm

If they would fit all the intended bars, Tektro FL750 levers are really easy to unhook the end of the cable.

Mrs H has them on her bike &, because I fitted fatter tyres (38mm Voyager Hypers in place of the 28mm OEM tyres), the QR on the calipers doesn't open wide enough to release the wheel. Disengaging the cable when necessary takes no more than a couple of seconds (mostly to take off the front wheel so the bike will fit in the car to go somewhere with it).

That would just leave a gear shifter solution to find...

Brucey
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Re: Switching handlebars: Solutions for quick cable interchange

Postby Brucey » 17 Dec 2019, 12:20pm

similar to what I suggested upthread; unhook the brake levers and put the shifter on an accessory mount.

For example this Rohloff shifter wouldn't interfere with changing the handlebars;

Image

and there are plenty of other possible shifter mountings in a similar vein.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Valbrona
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Re: Switching handlebars: Solutions for quick cable interchange

Postby Valbrona » 17 Dec 2019, 12:55pm

Image
I should coco.

snaz
Posts: 42
Joined: 6 Nov 2019, 7:35pm

Re: Switching handlebars: Solutions for quick cable interchange

Postby snaz » 17 Dec 2019, 1:01pm

thanks -

There are some interesting suggestions.

1. I agree middle burn oilers don't look viable.
2. But what about the 'plain ordinary outer joiners' ? They look like a budget way of possibly achieving my aim or am i mistaken ? I can't seem to figure out what one is tho. Is it :
a) 1st image here ? https://www.mtbiking.com.au/workshop/de ... le-routing
b) https://www.scaffolding-direct.co.uk/ex ... -3mm-.aspx
Do you think it would be robust enough ?

3. What is a slotted cable stop ? Can you link me to an article / image ?
4. @brucey - I don't see why they wont work.
a) I can cut away the casing at the point the cable enters the splitter.
b) Why wont they work on the gear cable in theory too ? There are splitters for gear cables:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cables/jtek ... ire-black/
c) There are examples of others doing what i want on the web:
https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1168 ... ebars.html

cheers sp :wink:

Brucey
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Re: Switching handlebars: Solutions for quick cable interchange

Postby Brucey » 17 Dec 2019, 4:16pm

snaz wrote:4. @brucey - I don't see why they wont work.
a) I can cut away the casing at the point the cable enters the splitter.
b) Why wont they work on the gear cable in theory too ? There are splitters for gear cables:


As your bike is at present, splitters won't work on your brake cables or gear cables, because a Brompton has no exposed cable runs to speak of. I'm suggesting that you simply unhook the cables from the brake levers, hence you only have a problem to solve with the gear cable.

Image

the splitter is just a solid lump, with no provision for the housing. Without something to react the loads in the housing and let the inner move you have got nothing useful. You can join/separate the inner cable using a splitter but you need

a) braze-on cable stops on the frame or
b) some kind of an open framework/cage with two cable housing stops built into it, as per rfryer's suggestion.

Image

whatever tension load exists in the cable inner, the outer housing/cable stops must see an equal compressive load. With the gear cable the loads are not that high (a few tens of lbs), but the assemblage needs to be stiff in order for the gears to be selected accurately. WIth brakes, the loads in the housing can exceed several hundred lbs without any difficulty, so the cable stops need to be both stiff and strong.

BTW most cable splitters (including both in the photos above....) have the capacity to rattle like crazy and drive you berserk. Needless to say if you do find a way of using cable splitters on your bike, you will need three sets for each control cable, so that you have one half (female say) on the bike and you will need three male halves, one on each set of handlebars.

If you don't understand how Bowden cables work I would strongly advise against fiddling with your brakes at all.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

snaz
Posts: 42
Joined: 6 Nov 2019, 7:35pm

Re: Switching handlebars: Solutions for quick cable interchange

Postby snaz » 17 Dec 2019, 7:08pm

thanks again folks -
alot of heat and ideas here.

1. So the brake handles with easy cable release could work. my handle bars are vintage shape :
https://www.ergotec.de/en/products/lenk ... -25-4.html
Can anyone recommend a break handle which will attach on the main bar but also sweep back under the grip AND which might have easy cable release ?

2. Brucey says to mount the gear lever off handlebar - "there are plenty of other possible shifter mountings in a similar vein" (to his pic of the Roholf) - Can you recommend one for a Brompton ?

3. Nobody clarified the option of using an 'outer joiner' instead of a cable splitter ??

thanks folks - getting there....!