Sturmey Archer front hub brake: 70/90mm

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SimonCelsa
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Sturmey Archer front hub brake: 70/90mm

Postby SimonCelsa » 20 Dec 2019, 9:06pm

SJS cycles sell the subject hub brake in a 70mm or 90mm option, same price.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hubs-intern ... e-36-hole/

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hubs-intern ... e-36-hole/

For a 700C wheel build I would imagine the 90mm option would offer significantly better braking than the 70mm option.

Any comments to the contrary before I pull the trigger??

Cheers.

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mjr
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Re: Sturmey Archer front hub brake: 70/90mm

Postby mjr » 20 Dec 2019, 9:59pm

Just don't fit the bigger one to too-weak forks. I don't know how you'd test.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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SimonCelsa
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Re: Sturmey Archer front hub brake: 70/90mm

Postby SimonCelsa » 21 Dec 2019, 5:11am

It would be for an eighties Raleigh Record Ace with 531 fork blades.

Would this see me doing a face plant as the forks give way........should I opt for the 70mm.

Any views appreciated.

Cheers

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SimonCelsa
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Re: Sturmey Archer front hub brake: 70/90mm

Postby SimonCelsa » 21 Dec 2019, 5:17am

The regular X-FD offers excellent performance, particularly after the initial break-in period.

The only justification I could make for the 90mm drum brake is for particularly hilly terrain, a tandem bike, or a very heavily loaded cargo bike. For everything else, the 70mm is more than sufficient, and has the added advantage of being easier to build into a wheel due to smaller hub flange size.


Just read the above on another forum so I would imagine the 70mm is probably sufficient for my purposes.

LuckyLuke
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Re: Sturmey Archer front hub brake: 70/90mm

Postby LuckyLuke » 21 Dec 2019, 9:08am

Hi, my commuter is a Surly CrossCheck. It has the 70mm hub dynamo drum brake. 700 x 38 Panaracer Pasela tyre fitted.
I really rate this hub. I've used / use V brakes, short reach calipers, long reach calipers, canti brakes and roller brakes before. Braking is similar to a good canti.
Modulation is good too. I currently use Shimano ?Tiagra road levers for drops. I've used flat bar levers in the past which worked a bit better.
The fork on the Surly is pretty beefy, the Record Ace fork is 531c I believe? The 90mm drum could be too much? (I'm speculating. Perhaps Brucey or others can advise?)
Overall IMHO the drum dynamo hub is a winner on a commuter. Great braking in the wet, not at all draggy like a roller brake, super low maintenance etc. IMHO they're not only for commuting: I did the Way of The Roses coast to coast on the CrossCheck in the summer, with tent and panniers and the hub was faultless on the descents braking with a load. I've used the CrossCheck for 50-100km autumn / winter rides and the hub is perfect for filthy country lanes.
The only drawback was the long time it takes the brake pads to 'bed in', if that's the right word. Initially braking was disappointing but gradually improved. I use top notch, greased Jagwire inners and outers, good cable prep etc. which helps.
Best wishes
Luke

robc02
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Re: Sturmey Archer front hub brake: 70/90mm

Postby robc02 » 21 Dec 2019, 11:47am

I find 70mm drums fine with 700 wheels. I rode Lon Las Cymru, hilly by any UK standards, carrying (lightweight) camping gear on a drum braked bike without any problems.

Bowedw
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Re: Sturmey Archer front hub brake: 70/90mm

Postby Bowedw » 21 Dec 2019, 4:02pm

My Audax bike is a 1984 Record Ace, I do like your idea, but personally would not on put a drum brake.Only with an emergency stop will you be able to test them fully.
I did have an accident with my Thorn with 531 fork blades, I dropped the front wheel into a ditch and it was the fork crown that folded up, they straightened back so easy it was an eye opener. Of course I never used the again. Lucky to have survived the over the bars and road headbutt as well.

AM7
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Re: Sturmey Archer front hub brake: 70/90mm

Postby AM7 » 21 Dec 2019, 7:05pm

I’ve been using a 70mm X-FDD Dynamo drum brake hub on my 1984 Raleigh Classic 15 531, which is basically the same frame as the 80s Record Ace, for the last few years. Good stopping power and no other dramas.

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SimonCelsa
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Re: Sturmey Archer front hub brake: 70/90mm

Postby SimonCelsa » 22 Dec 2019, 6:10am

Thanks for the replies & differing perspectives, think I'll wait until a reasonable 70mm one turns up on eBay and try my luck there. I'm looking to put together a basic commuter (max 10 mile/day - no big hills), minimal maintenance, high reliability, probably fixed rear hub, max budget £200 for components but half that if feasible.

Cheers

Brucey
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Re: Sturmey Archer front hub brake: 70/90mm

Postby Brucey » 22 Dec 2019, 9:53am

a 70mm brake will be plenty as per comments above. 90mm is overkill and may make it too easy to overload the forks. The question you should ask is if you would be happy to do repeated stoppies on any given fork. If the answer is 'yes' then you can perhaps fit a 90mm brake, but IME this is almost invariably a 'no' for most 1" steerer forks. Really a 90mm brake is best suited for cargo bikes, tandems and the like.

FWIW the same brake performance (it accepts an identical brake plate) is/was also available in a (cheaper) 70mm steel-shelled hub SBF but there are significant differences

- the bearings use an almost conventional 3/8" threaded axle (which can be changed fairly easily for a longer one if you want to have really solid mounting for a front carrier) (cf the aluminium hub uses a 9x1mm threaded axle with shoulders for bearings)
- the bearings are shielded not sealed
- the bearings are cup and cone not cartridge (all the aluminium SA front hubs use cartridge bearings)
- the bearings use 1/4" balls and are immensely strong and long lasting (provided the water doesn't get in)
- the steel flanges offer poor support for spokes and the wheel will be best built with spoke washers (typically one per spoke on the left and two on the right)
- flanges are slightly different size to the aluminium hubs so spoke lengths are very slightly different
- the RH flange is insufficiently strong and will collapse (buckle) if the wheel is built with very high tension
- the hub is best built near tangent on the LH flange; this reduces the chances of variable spoke tension pulling the flange out of round
- older model 70mm steel shelled hubs (from the 1980s to about 2000, eg branded 'steelite') use a different brake arm to current hubs, and require a different fitting on the end of the brake cable. You can substitute a more modern brake arm instead though, if you want.

I have a steel shelled SBF hub on my carrier bike and it works OK. However its main virtue is that it is cheaper than an aluminium shelled hub.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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SimonCelsa
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Re: Sturmey Archer front hub brake: 70/90mm

Postby SimonCelsa » 22 Dec 2019, 4:36pm

All good info. I want to build this wheel once only and have it last into retirement so will go for the Sturmey Archer 70mm option.

Decision made, for now!

Cheers.

cycle tramp
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Re: Sturmey Archer front hub brake: 70/90mm

Postby cycle tramp » 22 Dec 2019, 10:15pm

SimonCelsa wrote:All good info. I want to build this wheel once only and have it last into retirement so will go for the Sturmey Archer 70mm option.

Decision made, for now!

Cheers.


Good Choice, I went for a 90 mm and it worked well straight out of the box, but now it's getting a bit stronger, and slightly out of balance with the rear 70 mm....... I'll probably go for the 70 mm option for my next build :-)

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mjr
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Re: Sturmey Archer front hub brake: 70/90mm

Postby mjr » 23 Dec 2019, 12:00pm

I probably should have mentioned I use the 90mm XL-FDD with SA lever on my Dutch bike that sometimes pulls a trailer. 70mm rear brake. Very chunky forks. Without particularly panicking, I think can stop the unladen bike from 18mph in not much more 4m and it always feels like available grip is the limiter, not braking force.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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SimonCelsa
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Re: Sturmey Archer front hub brake: 70/90mm

Postby SimonCelsa » 24 Dec 2019, 6:51pm

Yes, thanks for that ebay link - £99 a little over budget. I've got a suitable rim & can source new spokes for less than a tenner so am looking at building something up for around £50. Just have to be patient. Slowly slowly catchy monkey and all that.

Cheers, Simon