What kind of stepped ferrule for these old cable stops?

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sarniacycle
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Joined: 17 Jun 2012, 1:19pm

What kind of stepped ferrule for these old cable stops?

Postby sarniacycle » 3 Jan 2020, 1:21pm

Hello and thanks in advance for this.

Hopefully you can see the photo below of my frame's older style cable stops (actually one of the rear brake stops but the rear derailleur stop seems to be identical). From SJS Cycles, I bought "Jtek Stepped Chrome Ferrules 3.7 mm Insert for 5 mm Outer" one of which can be seen in the photo as well (painted black).

My questions...

1) It's hardly a snug fit and the cable exits at an awkward angle. I haven't finished the build yet but imagine the snout on the ferrule might drag on the cable so want to avoid this. Looking again now, i realise that SJS also sell a stepped ferrule that's "3.9 mm Insert for 5 mm Outer Cable", rather than 3.7mm - is this what I need or is there something even snugger/better?
2) What about the derailleur cable, do I just wrap insulating type round the end of the plastic outer to make it a snug fit into the 5mm ferrule? (I can't see any 4mm ferrules around).

Ferrule.jpg


Really appreciate any help, thanks.

hamster
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Joined: 2 Feb 2007, 12:42pm

Re: What kind of stepped ferrule for these old cable stops?

Postby hamster » 3 Jan 2020, 5:19pm

I had a similar issue on my Witcomb, although only for the derailleur cable stop on the chainstay. I used a cable end with the little pipe, which serves well to orientate things.
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shi ... prod131112

I didn't have the same issue with brakes as they used an outer all the way from front to back, although similar ones are available.

sarniacycle
Posts: 112
Joined: 17 Jun 2012, 1:19pm

Re: What kind of stepped ferrule for these old cable stops?

Postby sarniacycle » 3 Jan 2020, 9:43pm

Thanks Hamster. I might give that a go for the derailleur as have some spares lying around. Not sure for the brakes though as cable thicker. I'm curious as to what the original design solution was for these type of stops....

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: What kind of stepped ferrule for these old cable stops?

Postby Brucey » 3 Jan 2020, 10:52pm

originally a stepped ferrule with about 4mm dia nose was usually fitted, and fitted to a stop which hadn't had a drill run through it (as yours appears to have). If you want a really good fit, you probably need to modify a ferrule to fit exactly. I like Jagwire ones; there is one with a solid end (which can be turned to any size on a lathe) and it has a low friction liner inside it, so the cable runs smoothly even if there is a small angle on the ferrule.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

sarniacycle
Posts: 112
Joined: 17 Jun 2012, 1:19pm

Re: What kind of stepped ferrule for these old cable stops?

Postby sarniacycle » 4 Jan 2020, 4:46pm

Thanks for your help Brucey - this is a great help and I appreciate your time. Will check out Jagwire's stuff.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: What kind of stepped ferrule for these old cable stops?

Postby Brucey » 4 Jan 2020, 8:21pm

this is the kind of jagwire ferrule I was thinking of

Image

at one end it is solid (apart from the hole for the inner and the liner) which allows it to be machined to give a step. At the other end it accepts 5mm dia housing.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

scottg
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Joined: 10 Jan 2008, 8:44pm
Location: Highland Heights Kentucky,, USA

Re: What kind of stepped ferrule for these old cable stops?

Postby scottg » 5 Jan 2020, 12:09am

Some stops, you trim the casing off, no ferrule.

https://www.renehersecycles.com/shop/co ... braze-ons/
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Why not the best, buy Cyclo-Benelux.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: What kind of stepped ferrule for these old cable stops?

Postby Brucey » 5 Jan 2020, 12:28am

sarniacycle wrote:….What about the derailleur cable, do I just wrap insulating type round the end of the plastic outer to make it a snug fit into the 5mm ferrule? (I can't see any 4mm ferrules around).....


you can use tape as you describe but there are other methods, e.g.

1) there is such a thing as 5mm SIS type housing (and also thin-walled ferrules so that it then fits into a 6mm bore fitting) and/or

2) you can use 4mm SIS type housing together with thin-walled ferrules to make it the correct size to go into a 'special ferrule' (to fit the frame) which would normally accept 5mm housing.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

sarniacycle
Posts: 112
Joined: 17 Jun 2012, 1:19pm

Re: What kind of stepped ferrule for these old cable stops?

Postby sarniacycle » 5 Jan 2020, 8:57am

Thank you all, this has been very helpful indeed and even if I can't find the 'proper' way of doing it today then there's a good few workarounds suggested above I can try out too. Thanks.

Des49
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Joined: 2 Dec 2014, 11:45am

Re: What kind of stepped ferrule for these old cable stops?

Postby Des49 » 5 Jan 2020, 11:21pm

We have several bikes that all need the same ferrule for the rear gear cable, I too had issues finding any suitable. Ended up getting some from SJS which fitted the stop perfectly, but the 4mm SP41 outer is a loose fit which is a shame. Here's a comparison with old and replacement.

photo.JPG

peetee
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Location: Cornwall

Re: What kind of stepped ferrule for these old cable stops?

Postby peetee » 6 Jan 2020, 8:58am

I have the short rear gear pip on a frame of mine. I found a stepped ferrule in an bike bits n bobs tray. It fits ok but the gear cable was exiting at an angle because of the curvature of the outer cable so I have eased the bend by cable tying the outer to the upward curving piece of the rear dropout. It is now seated well enough to not give any gear change issues on ten-speed Dura-Ace.
Last edited by peetee on 7 Jan 2020, 9:19am, edited 1 time in total.
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pwu
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Joined: 8 Jul 2019, 2:48pm

Re: What kind of stepped ferrule for these old cable stops?

Postby pwu » 6 Jan 2020, 8:14pm

While we're on the subject...

1) Do old downtube shifters (cyclo benelux) take smaller capagnolo head rather than modern shimano/sram head inners?
IMG_20160325_140233.jpg

IMG_20160325_140414.jpg


2) GB Arret levers take modern MTB brake inners, do they need ferrules?
IMG_20160325_140340.jpg


Also, I thought all pre index stuff used 5mm gear outer

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Gattonero
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Re: What kind of stepped ferrule for these old cable stops?

Postby Gattonero » 7 Jan 2020, 8:13am

You can use a stepped gear ferrule, by removing part of the plastic casing of the brake outer cable, easy to do with a stanley kinfe but just make sure the cables are the right length because the lack of plastic casing makes the cable more prone to kink and bend.

Campagnolo makes two types of stepped ferrules: they both have 4.6mm ID and 5.6mm OD, but the most known ones have the stepped tip at 3.9mm OD, those ones:
Image

The is however another one that has the stepped part at 5.2mm OD, those are hard to find (can't even find a picture), but back in the day I used to get them from the bike shop in Notting Hill, or Condor in Grays Inn.
Those may only require a little filing of exess paint form the frame.
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since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...