Help please, first time fitting tubeless.

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slowster
Posts: 1145
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Help please, first time fitting tubeless.

Postby slowster » 5 Jan 2020, 1:01pm

I was on the verge of giving up and phoning for a lift at the time.

I think this is illustrative of one of the major changes in recent decades in cycling culture and in the mindset/outlook of most who have taken up cycling as a leisure activity during that time.

It used to be that the expectation of anyone riding a bike was that if they had a mechanical, they would be self-reliant and get themselves back home using the tools and spares they had brought and their skills to fix the bike. It was very rare that a problem would be so severe that a rider would need to get a train to get back home or call someone for a lift. (I recall one ride as a 13 year old when I was knocked of my bike while still 15 miles from home. I was taken by ambulance to a hospital a very short distance away where I was given a few stitches. I then got back on my bike and rode home.)

Nowadays many new cyclists are quite happy to adopt new technology and equipment which is not tried and tested (or at least not tried and tested by them such that they can use it properly and can fix it if it goes wrong). Instead they rely on their mobile phone or smart phone to get them out of trouble.

I think there is a link with the downturn in club cycling and especially club runs. Although I had ridden long distances solo before I joined a club, riding 80 miles or more on a club run felt much less committing, because of the added reassurance that being accompanied by other riders gave, who might be able to help if I had a problem for which my own tools, spares or skills proved inadequate.

I suspect that the number of cyclists for whom tubeless is the best option is a lot smaller than the actual numbers using tubeless. For example, tubeless might well be essential for a group of MTB riders who ride in the dark, rain and cold on weekday evenings in the winter on trails with a high probability of punctures due to thorns etc. Moreover, the members of such a group will help each other with the inevitable learning curve of how to set up tubeless tyres and deal with problems. Conversely, I suspect most solo riders are much less likely to need tubeless, and without the benefit of learning from riders who are more experienced in using tubeless they are much more likely to get into trouble*.

* Like the last two riders I came across who had punctured. Both had tubeless tyres, neither was adequately equipped to fix them. One was facing a five mile hike cross country pushing a heavy e-bike, and the other was relying on their smartphone to get them out of trouble.

rfryer
Posts: 706
Joined: 7 Feb 2013, 3:58pm

Re: Help please, first time fitting tubeless.

Postby rfryer » 5 Jan 2020, 1:54pm

slowster wrote:
I was on the verge of giving up and phoning for a lift at the time.

I think this is illustrative of one of the major changes in recent decades in cycling culture and in the mindset/outlook of most who have taken up cycling as a leisure activity during that time.

There may be some truth in that, but I don't see it as entirely negative. Personally, I like to be well equipped (much more so than most club cyclists), but I'm also happy to reduce the clutter I take on local rides if I know there is support available should the worst happen. It's nice to ride a quiet, light, unencumbered bike, and if the cost of that is a very occasional call for help, then that might, for some, be a compromise worth making. It doesn't make them bad people!

dim
Posts: 329
Joined: 12 May 2019, 5:59pm

Re: Help please, first time fitting tubeless.

Postby dim » 5 Jan 2020, 2:02pm

another recent interesting article discusses safety and non-standard rims:

https://www.renehersecycles.com/safety-advice-non-standard-rims-and-rene-herse-tires/

snip:
Safety advice: Rene Herse tires are designed for rims that meet the ETRTO standard, specifically:

G height: 5.2 – 6.5 mm
Sidewalls with hooks.

Rims that do not meet the current standards – especially hookless rims and rims with sidewalls that have G heights of less than 5.0 mm – are not recommended for use with Rene Herse tires. This is especially important when installing your tires tubeless. Our testing has found that tires mounted tubeless on hookless rims or on rims with lower-than-standard G heights have a less-than-adequate margin of safety against blow-offs

slowster
Posts: 1145
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Help please, first time fitting tubeless.

Postby slowster » 5 Jan 2020, 3:38pm

rfryer wrote:There may be some truth in that, but I don't see it as entirely negative. Personally, I like to be well equipped (much more so than most club cyclists), but I'm also happy to reduce the clutter I take on local rides if I know there is support available should the worst happen. It's nice to ride a quiet, light, unencumbered bike, and if the cost of that is a very occasional call for help, then that might, for some, be a compromise worth making. It doesn't make them bad people!

Yes, I worded my post rather poorly. What I should have said is that there seem to be many relatively new cyclists for whom the mobile phone is almost a first resort for anything other than the most straightforward repair, e.g. a complete reliance on sealant fixing any and every puncture, rather than carrying the necessary extra items like plugs and an inner tube.

I too like riding a stripped down light bike, but I try to ensure that the bike is in good enough condition that I will be able to fix any problems even with the minimalist tool/spares kit I take on such a bike, and I imagine you are the same. In that situation being able to phone for help as a last resort is just extra peace of mind.

I think anyone who tends to use the mobile phone frequently to call for help, or as something approaching a first resort rather than as a last resort, will eventually come a cropper.

nigelnightmare
Posts: 625
Joined: 19 Sep 2016, 10:33pm

Re: Help please, first time fitting tubeless.

Postby nigelnightmare » 5 Jan 2020, 4:08pm

I read a post on a forum where a guy could not fit a tubeless tyre, so he popped it into his tumble drier for 20 minutes to heat it up ... it did fit easy after that

That sounds counter intuitive to me as rubber contracts when heated.

Brucey
Posts: 36822
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Help please, first time fitting tubeless.

Postby Brucey » 5 Jan 2020, 6:20pm

it is not the rubber that makes tyres easy to fit or not.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

dim
Posts: 329
Joined: 12 May 2019, 5:59pm

Re: Help please, first time fitting tubeless.

Postby dim » 5 Jan 2020, 6:29pm

nigelnightmare wrote:I read a post on a forum where a guy could not fit a tubeless tyre, so he popped it into his tumble drier for 20 minutes to heat it up ... it did fit easy after that

That sounds counter intuitive to me as rubber contracts when heated.


Oh well, you can always try this: :?


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NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 11219
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: Help please, first time fitting tubeless.

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 5 Jan 2020, 8:18pm

Hi,
Softer maybe.
Tip, if you want to get a handlebar rubber on or off, a measuring Pyrex jug Water filled from a hot kettle, Pop it in the microwave for another few minutes, Drop the rubber into the water for several seconds, pull out shake it off and press it home.
In reverse place handlebar end into jug and leave for 30 seconds or so, Protect hands with gloves to remove the rubber.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

Racingt
Posts: 98
Joined: 23 Oct 2015, 6:45am

Re: Help please, first time fitting tubeless.

Postby Racingt » 5 Jan 2020, 8:51pm

dim wrote:I'm going into my 3rd year of using tubeless tyres and have them fitted to both my bikes

I don't see what all the fuss is about .... it's simple if you follow a few basic procedures. I have a wider range of tyres to choose from, can ride using lower pressures for comfort, can fit faster tyres and I don't have to worry about pinch flats.

In the past 2 months, I had 2 punctures that have both self sealed ... all that happened, is I lost a bit of pressure (I did not even have to top up with air) .... I may have had more punctures that sealed instantly without me knowing

when I go on a ride, I have a Co2 kit, a spare inner tube and a dynaplug racer kit .... all fit snugly in my top tube bag or in my jersey pocket

in the worst case scenario, if a puncture does not seal with the latex, or the dynaplug, I need to add an inner tube (I would have to do that anyway if I were using clinchers) .... I've never had to fit a inner tube yet but still carry an inner tube for te worst case scenario

then there's the argument of when the tyre looses all it's pressure due to a gash whilst cycling, the tyre can come off the rim ..... the exact same thing happens with a clincher tyre and a tube ... the only safer bet is tubulars (so I'm told.... I have no experience with tubulars)

from what I have seen, most new bikes (quality bikes) are now being sold with tubeless ready rims as standard .... you choose what you want to use.... tubeless tyres or clincher tyres on the rims (a tubeless rim allows you to choose between a tubeless or clincher tyre .... they both fit the rim)

A lot of the problems that relate to people not being able to fit tubeless tyres to rims is the fact that they either have too many layers of rimtape or they have the wrong rimtape

I'm planning a tour of a part of the Wild Atlantic Way in Ireland this year, and I will use tubeless (still deciding if I should use Schwalbe Marathon Supreme or Panaracer Gravelking Sk)

Dim, the problem I have is that the tyre loses 80 psi within 4 hours. Perhaps this is acceptable, and I just need to add sealant, but it feels very wrong to do that, without understanding why.
My 18 months riding tubeless has been incident free, but I've had more grief from fitting this tyre than in 5 years of punctures. The only difference is this hassle happens in my garage, not by the roadside. I only want to ride my bike, and this issue is preventing me, so I've ordered tubes from Wiggle. Life's too short.

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willcee
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Joined: 14 Aug 2008, 11:30pm
Location: castleroe,co.derryUlster

Re: Help please, first time fitting tubeless.

Postby willcee » 5 Jan 2020, 9:03pm

Dim.. advice.. if you are doing a wild Atlantic Way tour in the Irish Republic you'll be wiser using tyres and tubes.. good luck... will