Tyre sizes - will this fit?

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Darkman
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Tyre sizes - will this fit?

Postby Darkman » 5 Jan 2020, 9:04pm

I have a Specialized Rockhopper 29er.

Current tyres are ETRTO 50-622. Inner rim width is I believe 25mm.

Looking at Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tour tyres front and back though they're all listed as 700C. But that's 622BSD too, right, so they'll fit?

Don't want to go too narrow. 36mm/1.5" possibly as minimum, or even 42mm.

(I've asked about tyres before and I thought I vaguely understood, but then somebody asked this very question on the Evans Cycles site, and Evans said they wouldn't fit a 29er! Knowing Evans though, I take that with a very large handful of salt).
Last edited by Darkman on 5 Jan 2020, 9:18pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jdsk
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Re: Tyre sizes - will this fit?

Postby Jdsk » 5 Jan 2020, 9:17pm

No comment on what your frame and mudguards will take, but, as Sheldon Brown puts it:
"29 inch 622 mm This is a marketing term for wide 622 mm ("700C") tires."

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html

Jonathan

Darkman
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Re: Tyre sizes - will this fit?

Postby Darkman » 5 Jan 2020, 9:20pm

Well, the rear won't take anything bigger than 2.0" cos the front derailleur would rub. But I figure anything smaller will be fine (without going to silly thin road tyres, obvs).

slowster
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Re: Tyre sizes - will this fit?

Postby slowster » 5 Jan 2020, 9:37pm

I suspect that the Marathon Plus Tour tyre provides great puncture resistance at the penalty of being slow and draggy, like the standard Marathon Plus.

In your shoes I would fit a faster rolling - and probably also more comfortable - tyre like the Marathon Supreme, and I would fit the widest version possible, e.g. 50mm. Semi-slick tyres like that are not good for riding off road in slippery conditions (wet grass or very muddy paths), but in all other respects they should outperform a Marathon Plus Tour.

Brucey
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Re: Tyre sizes - will this fit?

Postby Brucey » 5 Jan 2020, 9:47pm

slowster wrote:I suspect that the Marathon Plus Tour tyre provides great puncture resistance at the penalty of being slow and draggy, like the standard Marathon Plus.

In your shoes I would fit a faster rolling - and probably also more comfortable - tyre like the Marathon Supreme, and I would fit the widest version possible, e.g. 50mm. Semi-slick tyres like that are not good for riding off road in slippery conditions (wet grass or very muddy paths), but in all other respects they should outperform a Marathon Plus Tour.


yep, I'd vote for that too. The M+ tour weighs ~1.1kg per tyre :shock: in 26x2" size. A similar 622 fit tyre ought to be about 10% heavier than that.

If you are doing mostly road riding a set of 1.5" to 2" wide road biased tyres will make the whole bike come alive, if you choose the right ones.

cheers
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Darkman
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Re: Tyre sizes - will this fit?

Postby Darkman » 5 Jan 2020, 9:52pm

Yeah I already saw the Supremes, but where I live in South Lincs is big farming country. The roads are generally horrible and I wouldn't have an awful lot of confidence with tyres like that under me. I'd much prefer something in the middle, even if they are heavier. Plus I don't want to be limited to just roads as there are some nice hardpack routes around here.

Brucey
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Re: Tyre sizes - will this fit?

Postby Brucey » 5 Jan 2020, 10:01pm

I've not ridden the M+tour but it is based on the M+ and I can't think of a tyre I'd like less if I was planning to ride offroad. The reason is that it would be either uncomfortable or very slow, possibly both.

M+ have low rolling resistance -considering the puncture resistance- but only at high pressures on smooth roads. If you deflate them to give some measure of comfort, they become incredibly draggy; for example one test IIRC showed that if you deflate them to make them as comfortable on cobbles as a nice tyre (Vittoria Voyager hyper) then they were almost exactly twice as draggy. Whatever your knobbly tyres are at present, they are almost certainly going to be nicer on the dirt than M+ and are may even be nicer on the road too.

cheers
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tim-b
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Re: Tyre sizes - will this fit?

Postby tim-b » 5 Jan 2020, 10:08pm

Hi
The 622 and the 25C is the important bit, the rest is manufacturing-speak
ETRTO recommend a 42mm minimum width with 25C rims, although individuals report that they have gone narrower
You also need to decide what's important:
Rolling resistance, on-road grip, off-road grip, puncture-resistance, cost, durability and comfort
You might get lucky and be able to choose any three from that list :D
Regards
tim-b
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foxyrider
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Re: Tyre sizes - will this fit?

Postby foxyrider » 5 Jan 2020, 10:22pm

There is a lot of bunkum floating about re tyre suitabilities. 29" is the same as 700c (mtb'ers couldn't bear to admit using road bike standards though), you can probably go down to a 32 on those rims.

You do not need great fat knobby tyres to ride off tarmac, especially if we are talking hard top trails. Most of my bikes run 23 or 25mm road tyres and get used on just about any surface from muddy tracks, through NCN trails to nice tarmac - sometimes loaded with camping or weekend gear. Tyre wise i'm talking Conti GP's or similar so pretty much full on slicks.

I'm not suggesting you ride the same but a wider GP 4 seasons or the much vaunted Hyper will cope with almost anything you can throw at them. If you think you will be doing more muddy stuff than tarmac you could fit a CX knobbly or maybe one of the 'gravel' tyres.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

slowster
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Re: Tyre sizes - will this fit?

Postby slowster » 5 Jan 2020, 10:34pm

I think you may be underestimating the Marathon Supremes. I ride 40mm Vittoria Hypers on gravel tracks and have no problems (they have a significantly thinner tread than the Supremes, and I was initially concerned that I would get too many punctures and side wall cuts, but to date I've had none).

Semi-slick tyres are fine on hardpack - it's very wet muddy paths, e.g. with the mud submerged under puddles of water, that are a problem (which is the sort of terrain where knobbly MTB tyres come into their own).

I recall from your other threads that you are planning to lose quite a bit more weight still, and for a heavier rider (or one carrying a lot of heavy camping kit) a wider tyre will be better. A narrower tyre will likely require higher pressure and be significantly less comfortable. Moreover, IME a wide semi-slick tyre provides better traction and grip than a narrow tyre with a pronounced tread, because the much larger contact patch of the wider tyre trumps the tread pattern of the narrower tyre (and lower pressure means the contact patch will be even larger).

If you want a tyre that is probably a bit more substantial than the Supreme, you could consider the Schwalbe Big Apple in 29 x 2.00/50-622 size (the faster rolling Race Guard version). e.g. £19 from Wiggle. I use the 2.35" version on my MTB, and find it excellent on gravel, hardpack trails and on road (much faster and less draggy than knobbly tyres).

If however you want a more pronounced tread pattern on the tyre, the Schwalbe Almotion is reckoned to have a low rolling resistance similar to the Supremes, and is also available in 50mm size, e.g. from SJS.

If you're unsure, you could just get one tyre to try, but I think any of the above three tyres will give a noticeably nicer and faster ride than a Marathon Tour Plus.

mattsccm
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Re: Tyre sizes - will this fit?

Postby mattsccm » 6 Jan 2020, 7:21am

Yes they will fit. You can happily go down to 25 mm in most tyres despite what manufactures say. They really over err on the side of extreme cautiousness. I wouldn't in you case but 30 mm plus would be fine.
Tread is largely irrelevant unless it can bite in which it can't do on muddy tarmac or gravel/ stones. Despite the current fad for dirty great knobblies on so called gravel bikes, they are superfluous and just add to the drag.
Pressure is far more relevant on mucky roads and hard surfaces no matter how much mud is on them.
No doubt some one will suggest that thosre little sipes in some tyres work but if they block up they don't and if they don't block up it's so wet they are not needed.
This is a bike not a Tatra truck crossing Siberia. Fairly wide as road tyres go but not too hard. In the long run going for the toughest option out there may not be the best. It will reduce ride quality and probably won't prove much if any less useful.

reohn2
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Re: Tyre sizes - will this fit?

Postby reohn2 » 6 Jan 2020, 9:32am

On my Genesis Vagabond I've been riding 700(29er) x 50mm(47mm actual size)Schwalbe Marathon Supremes for the past 15months on tarmac,bridleways,towpaths and a bit of singletrack,the only time they suffer is when things get really sticky and slippery,so in the really wet 3 winter months I swap them for 700 x 50mm (47mm actual) Conti RaceKings.Both tyres are supple and comfortable,I've had one pucture,first ride out on the Contis and none on the Supremes.
EDIT; both tyres weigh 650g.

I've ridden M+ tyres for a short while that came on a bike I bought some years ago,they were a horribly stodgy,heavy and very uncomfortable tyre to ride on and were removed because of that.They left a very bad impression.
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Darkman
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Re: Tyre sizes - will this fit?

Postby Darkman » 6 Jan 2020, 10:34am

OK, had a look at the Supremes again since they've been mentioned a lot, but it seems the tyre walls are only 0.7mm, which seems awfully thin?

What sort of problems is that likely to cause? Any? Is it even as bad as it sounds?

reohn2
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Re: Tyre sizes - will this fit?

Postby reohn2 » 6 Jan 2020, 10:57am

Darkman wrote:OK, had a look at the Supremes again since they've been mentioned a lot, but it seems the tyre walls are only 0.7mm, which seems awfully thin?

What sort of problems is that likely to cause? Any? Is it even as bad as it sounds?

The side walls shouldn't give any problems,I certainly haven't had any running them at 20 to 25psi front and 40 to 45psi rear with an all up weight (bike+day luggage+me) of 100kg.
Also I've been riding Vittoria Voyager Hypers 700x40(37mm actual) @45psi and 65psi on another bike on similar terrain but with more tarmac per ride,these tyres have 0.5mm sidewalls and a 3mm tread,never had a sidewall issue with punctures averaging no more than two per annum in the 8 years I've been riding them.
Both these tyres have high TPI(Threads Per Inch)count carcasses which means a more durable tyre whilst having a thinner carcass.
Cheaper tyres with less TPI carcasses need a thicker carcass to make up for the lower TPI count which translates into a more stodgy ride and slower rolling performance.
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