What is a Gravel Bike?

[peetee]

Quick skim..... 8.5 to 9 kgs.

Hmm. Is that with 1x gearing?

[mattsccm]

"as it was for everyone else BITD"
No it wan't! Winter MTBing was a continuous compromise between going as fast as you were capable of and the need to be able to stop.
Don't get me wrong, as I still see that modern tech isn't everything, but I will point out that if technical developments were not useful then we would all be on hobby horses. We are all using an "improvement" on that so are not really in a position to comment on other peoples uses.
I completely fail to see why anyone would need a mobile phone when we coped quite happily without them.

[peetee]

I completely fail to see why anyone would need a mobile phone when we coped quite happily without them.

We did indeed with the advantage of having space in our jerseys for a bit more malt loaf!
I would be quite happy without one if it were not for the expectation of others that they can contact you if needed and that you will inform them of any delay.

[reohn2]

Must get me a modern disc brake bike that will stop me better. All those chunky cables and corrected forks and stays. I don’t know how people ever stopped before, they’re amazing. Canti’s and Vs are rubbish because I used to have them and I couldn’t stop in time and fell off.

.

Who's ever claimed that?

The overall claims for good disc brakes are :-
They stop consistently better than rim brakes in muddy/dirty conditions(no better than rim brakes IME in good dry conditions)
Don't wear out rims rims in those conditions
Correctly chosen pads last much longer than rim brake pads.
Much larger section tyres can be fitted.
The bike can still be ridden with a badly out of true rim with two perfectly effective brakes
The bike stays cleaner longer and is easier to clean due there being a lack of grey aluminium sludge all over it.
Points against discs are:-
They need a stiffer front fork to counter the braking forces nearer to the hub.
Rotors can get knocked out of true(though for touring a spare rotor weighs a few grams).

I've only ever used and been interested in using cable discs(BB7'S in particular)and as such have no experience of hydraulic discs,though I've no doubt they're very reliable.

[jb]

Hmm, I wonder if the pneumatic tyre had as much controversy around being accepted.

[Cugel]

"...only people who fail to grasp basic human behaviour and don't observe what actually happens in the real world think that more powerful brakes equals greater safety. "

So reduced to the absurd, no brakes is safe (as long as one rides accordingly). I'm pretty sure I ride in the real world and I'm equally sure that more powerful brakes ARE safer when a vehicle pulls out in front of me from a blind side road. Twice in recent weeks I've had to come to a sudden dead halt when cars came from a right side give way and pulled across immediately in front of me leaving no space on the inside. Flat bar Vs stopped me. I've had numerous bikes/brakes in the past that would not have done.

I'd love a (light, carbon) gravel bike (however defined!) for Club Rides which combine tarmac and by-ways, canal paths etc, only ones with sufficiently low gearing are next to impossible to find.

The UC's point (buried in his usual shout or three) is that improved facilities for performing some act or other (cycling in this case) often induce people to push the envelope of their actions not just up to the new-safe but beyond; sometimes well beyond. This is a valid point and can be observed in a hundred domains with their various new!improved! fangles.

This is not to say that new fangles are worthless. They do often provide improvements to the functionality involved. But they still require the fangle-operator to operate them with understanding and skill. This understanding should not be limited to what the fangle improves but also to what the fangle can induce the operator to do that's daft.

For example, disc brakes on a bike (particularly hydraulic disc brakes) can greatly improve the ability to modulate the degree of braking at the lever. As another noted, they are much easier to apply for those with a feak & weeble grip. But they are also able to lock the wheel more easily, via the very same improvements of functionality. And they work almost instantly in the wet. .....

So, a dafty thinking "I got better brakes" goes fast on a wet and cow-clapped lane. He comes to a bend around which is the cow, clapping. It is many yards away but he grabs the brakes instead of using the nice modulation. If it was dry.... but it's not, so down he goes on to the tarmac, dousing his jersey in diluted cow clap and breaking a collarbone.

****
In another thread, Brucey argued for drum brakes for dafties as they are less efficient and so less likely to induce such skids. Personally, I think the dafty should be left to learn the hard lesson so he might become undaft. But I am a cruel and nasty fellow.

Cugel

[pwa]

Hmm, I wonder if the pneumatic tyre had as much controversy around being accepted.

It must have had some resistance. After all, the person who invented the pneumatic tyre also invented the puncture.

[Cugel]

I completely fail to see why anyone would need a mobile phone when we coped quite happily without them.

We did indeed with the advantage of having space in our jerseys for a bit more malt loaf!
I would be quite happy without one if it were not for the expectation of others that they can contact you if needed and that you will inform them of any delay.

You have been suborned by a bit of prattlebox flogger sales logic! Any fule no that the prattlebox is a tool of the divvil to enable his insertion of many evil demon-memes into the wetware of unwary prattlers, making them do mad acts such as voting for Brexit or driving a car 100 yards to the shops for fags. Also, 96% of the huge profits go to his various agents about the planet, stoking various engines of destruction in preparation for Armageddon.

You have been warned! Throw the evil gizmo into a very deep dark hole immediately!

Cugel, a little angel on your shoulder.

[pwa]

I completely fail to see why anyone would need a mobile phone when we coped quite happily without them.

We did indeed with the advantage of having space in our jerseys for a bit more malt loaf!
I would be quite happy without one if it were not for the expectation of others that they can contact you if needed and that you will inform them of any delay.

You have been suborned by a bit of prattlebox flogger sales logic! Any fule no that the prattlebox is a tool of the divvil to enable his insertion of many evil demon-memes into the wetware of unwary prattlers, making them do mad acts such as voting for Brexit or driving a car 100 yards to the shops for fags. Also, 96% of the huge profits go to his various agents about the planet, stoking various engines of destruction in preparation for Armageddon.

You have been warned! Throw the evil gizmo into a very deep dark hole immediately!

Cugel, a little angel on your shoulder.

Do you get a phone signal where you are?

[reohn2]

Hmm, I wonder if the pneumatic tyre had as much controversy around being accepted.

I don't think it's as cut and dried as that,eg; some people prefer to ride fixed or single speed when there's any number of geared system options available,that is their prerogative and long may that freedom be available without derogatory comments or suggestions against that niche facet of cycling.
Similarly so,say,recumbent riders or rigid or full sus MTBs,trikes,velomobiles,e-bikes,the flat v drops argument,minimum spoke wheels,etc,etc,all of these things are parts of the multifaceted and all encompassing thing that is 'cycling'.

Years ago I read a comment on the forum by someone who IIRC was riding a slick tyred MTB tourer,a group of three or four roadies passed him and he bid them good day to which the answer from one of them was "we don't speak to scum" .That was open prejudice of the worst kind.There's a lot of it about wrapped up in many a package,one of which is the claim that discs brakes somehow degenerates cycling skill,it's bunkum of course,though some may hold to that erroneous view due to the mistaken belief in somekind of cycling purity.


PH of this parish has held the view thoughout this thread that gravel bikes are helping get people riding and with which I thoroughly agree,however some prefer to split hairs from their lofty towers claiming that other bikes can adequately do the same job,they're right of course but they miss the point IMO.
The point being,cycling.Cycling on whatever suits the indivudual who's partaking,whether that be a gravel bike or a Chopper,prejudice and snobbery knows no bounds at times

[reohn2]

The UC's point (buried in his usual shout or three) is that improved facilities for performing some act or other (cycling in this case) often induce people to push the envelope of their actions not just up to the new-safe but beyond; sometimes well beyond. This is a valid point and can be observed in a hundred domains with their various new!improved! fangles.

This is not to say that new fangles are worthless. They do often provide improvements to the functionality involved. But they still require the fangle-operator to operate them with understanding and skill. This understanding should not be limited to what the fangle improves but also to what the fangle can induce the operator to do that's daft.

For example, disc brakes on a bike (particularly hydraulic disc brakes) can greatly improve the ability to modulate the degree of braking at the lever. As another noted, they are much easier to apply for those with a feak & weeble grip. But they are also able to lock the wheel more easily, via the very same improvements of functionality. And they work almost instantly in the wet. .....

So, a dafty thinking "I got better brakes" goes fast on a wet and cow-clapped lane. He comes to a bend around which is the cow, clapping. It is many yards away but he grabs the brakes instead of using the nice modulation. If it was dry.... but it's not, so down he goes on to the tarmac, dousing his jersey in diluted cow clap and breaking a collarbone.

****
In another thread, Brucey argued for drum brakes for dafties as they are less efficient and so less likely to induce such skids. Personally, I think the dafty should be left to learn the hard lesson so he might become undaft. But I am a cruel and nasty fellow.

Cugel

That argument taken to it's logical conclusion leads to the belief that people shouldn't be in charge of any mechanical device whatsoever.
A preposterous suggestion of course but when narrowed down according to those that profess to know better,disc brakes are an evil too bad to even contemplate on a bicycle simply because they're consisently good and predictable.
Their head is downside up,it's downside up because they've naver contemplated the simple fact that good consistent brakes are good consistently,and the owner of such brakes,after a short time of ownership and adjustment from inferior brakes,a reasonably competent cyclist knows such brakes' capability.
In short they become familiar with such a system at their finger tips.
EDIT:- Thinks.... .....Contemplate someone who has never ridden a bicycle with anything other than a good consistent all weather braking system,take that away from him/her and only allow them such a system that's poorer under certain conditions.Which do you think they'de prefer?

[jb]

The first bikes to come out were gravel bikes as there was nothing else to ride on. Tarmac comes along and bikes get slightly more specialised in proportion to the new running conditions, materials improve and another change takes place , then people want to go off road and new problems arise, manufactures who's job it is to be profitable supply this demand with ever increasing speed - and so it's been and ever will be.

The down side for some people is that the manufactures quite rightly see no point making things to last fifty years when no one will buy them after five. Added to which if the products don't look different than last year all the media industry that has been built around it will consign them to the dump.

But just as anyone who wishes to ride an old BSA A10 complete with it's 'interesting' drum brakes, can do. So can anyone stick to so called traditional cycling equipment

[nsew]

I was just messing about. If I was hammering about off road, or on country lanes, through the winter months, then I’m fairly certain my rims would benefit from discs. I used to keep two bikes, now keep one. I ride that morning to night, 6-7 months of each year and perform a total overhaul on return. After which I swap out the wheels and drivetrain for what is mostly commuting. Simplicity and strength are key to my needs so I favor a mechanically early 90s set up.

Must get me a modern disc brake bike that will stop me better. All those chunky cables and corrected forks and stays. I don’t know how people ever stopped before, they’re amazing. Canti’s and Vs are rubbish because I used to have them and I couldn’t stop in time and fell off.

.

Who's ever claimed that?

The overall claims for good disc brakes are :-
They stop consistently better than rim brakes in muddy/dirty conditions(no better than rim brakes IME in good dry conditions)
Don't wear out rims rims in those conditions
Correctly chosen pads last much longer than rim brake pads.
Much larger section tyres can be fitted.
The bike can still be ridden with a badly out of true rim with two perfectly effective brakes

Points against discs are:-
They need a stiffer front fork to counter the braking forces nearer to the hub.
Rotors can get knocked out of true(though for touring a spare rotor weighs a few grams).

I've only ever used and been interested in using cable discs(BB7'S in particular)and as such have no experience of hydraulic discs,though I've no doubt they're very reliable.

[reohn2]

I was just messing about. If I was hammering about off road, or on country lanes, through the winter months, then I’m fairly certain my rims would benefit from discs. I used to keep two bikes, now keep one. I ride that morning to night, 6-7 months of each year and perform a total overhaul on return. After which I swap out the wheels and drivetrain for what is mostly commuting. Simplicity and strength are key to my needs so I favor a mechanically early 90s set up.

No wories

[reohn2]

The first bikes to come out were gravel bikes as there was nothing else to ride on. Tarmac comes along and bikes get slightly more specialised in proportion to the new running conditions, materials improve and another change takes place , then people want to go off road and new problems arise, manufactures who's job it is to be profitable supply this demand with ever increasing speed - and so it's been and ever will be.

The down side for some people is that the manufactures quite rightly see no point making things to last fifty years when no one will buy them after five. Added to which if the products don't look different than last year all the media industry that has been built around it will consign them to the dump.

But just as anyone who wishes to ride an old BSA A10 complete with it's 'interesting' drum brakes, can do. So can anyone stick to so called traditional cycling equipment

Spot on!