6 speed upgrade options

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David9694
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6 speed upgrade options

Postby David9694 » 1 Feb 2020, 8:08am

I’m completing a refurb of a 1984 Raleigh Record Ace, with its original 6 speed Campagnolo rear gears and a 52/42 Sugino GS chainset, original 27” wheels. I suspect the 28t max at the back won’t be enough. Is it simple to switch to a larger 32t 8 speed freewheel and mech?

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gaz
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Re: 6 speed upgrade options

Postby gaz » 1 Feb 2020, 11:54am

A frame from that era is most likely 126mm OLN spacing.

To switch to eight speed you'll need to respace the frame to 130(road)/135(mtb)mm.

Your existing hub is most likely for a screw on freewheel and whilst eight speed screw on freewheels are not unheard of respacing your hub to accept one may require a new axle and is probably not a good idea in the first place. If it is a freehub then tracking down a suitable six speed cassette will be a bit like finding hen's teeth.

Going eight speed will mean respacing the frame and a new rear wheel (27" may require a custom build). If you want indexing you'll also be looking at new mechs and shifters.

Alternatively IRD 13-32T 6 speed freewheel, although the current rear mech may not handle a 32T sprocket: https://southerndistributors.co.uk/prod ... 1-6-speed/

Edit:Link :oops:
Last edited by gaz on 1 Feb 2020, 2:11pm, edited 1 time in total.
2020 : To redundancy ... and beyond!

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Graham
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Re: 6 speed upgrade options

Postby Graham » 1 Feb 2020, 1:04pm

gaz wrote:Alternatively IRD 13-32T 6 speed freewheel, although the current rear mech may not handle a 32T srocket: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-fo ... toIndex=0#

Er, . . . . . . house-hunting or sprocket-hunting.

fastpedaller
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Re: 6 speed upgrade options

Postby fastpedaller » 1 Feb 2020, 1:04pm

Gaz -Are you looking for a house? :lol: :lol:

David9694
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Re: 6 speed upgrade options

Postby David9694 » 1 Feb 2020, 1:07pm

gaz wrote:A frame from that era is most likely 126mm OLN spacing.

To switch to eight speed you'll need to respace the frame to 130(road)/135(mtb)mm.

Your existing hub is most likely for a screw on freewheel and whilst eight speed screw on freewheels are not unheard of respacing your hub to accept one may require a new axle and is probably not a good idea in the first place. If it is a freehub then tracking down a suitable six speed cassette will be a bit like finding hen's teeth.

Going eight speed will mean respacing the frame and a new rear wheel (27" may require a custom build). If you want indexing you'll also be looking at new mechs and shifters.

Alternatively IRD 13-32T 6 speed freewheel, although the current rear mech may not handle a 32T srocket: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-fo ... toIndex=0#


Thanks - so it’s a toss up between new house or the IRD?

Brucey
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Re: 6 speed upgrade options

Postby Brucey » 1 Feb 2020, 1:40pm

If you get the rear wheel rebuilt with the right kind 0f 7s Freehub, you will be able to use any 7s cassette as well as various other shortened cassettes (eg 8 from 9 or 9 from 10 etc) 7s freehubs are available (eg used) in 126, 130 or 135mm widths. In practice taking a 126 mm one or a 130mm one and respacing it to 128mm means it will fit in either a 126mm frame or a 130mm frame.

Together with the right rear derailleur, you will be able to go to pretty much any size of sprocket you want. The whole arrangement will be stronger too; if you fit low gears to the hubs you have, rear axle breakage is never far away if you ride much.

However do be aware that if the teeth on the chainrings are still the original thickness (they may have worn thinner) then they are liable to be about 2.0mm in width. This means that they will work OK with 8s chain but they may not shift well (or indeed run at all) using 9s chain or higher. However the difference in width is only 1/128" so if you old chainrings are even slightly worn they may work OK.

It is also possible to turn your chainset into a triple chainset; this usually requires a new (slightly longer ) bottom bracket, and a 'triplizer' chainring, as well as a new rear mech with more total capacily. This approach will make it very easy to get much lower gears than 42/32 would get you.

Triplizer (adaptor) chainrings for 130mm BCD area available from Spa cycles, but IIRC a record ace will have a 144mm BCD chainset in which case a 'red clover' triplizer might be the only off the shelf option.

This is what replaces the extant inner chainring;

Image

Even with a 30T inner chainring (you can go smaller than that, but look out for front derailleur capacity limits) you can use a cheap 14-28 6s or 13-28 7s freewheel to get a low gear like you want. Since chainrings usually last several freewheels/chains, this is not an expensive setup to run, because the freewheels and chains cost little.

hth

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Greystoke
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Re: 6 speed upgrade options

Postby Greystoke » 1 Feb 2020, 2:10pm

Ebay have plenty of 6 speed screw on freewheels 14-34 for £15ish

Carlton green
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Re: 6 speed upgrade options

Postby Carlton green » 1 Feb 2020, 2:37pm

David9694 wrote:I’m completing a refurb of a 1984 Raleigh Record Ace, with its original 6 speed Campagnolo rear gears and a 52/42 Sugino GS chainset, original 27” wheels. I suspect the 28t max at the back won’t be enough. Is it simple to switch to a larger 32t 8 speed freewheel and mech?


IMO a 42T inner ring is on the big side for achieving low gears, if you can replace it with smaller then (if your front mech allows) that’s the way to go. Double chain-sets of 50 34 are common and relatively inexpensive. 6 speed free wheels are widely available in 14 - 28 form, but I can’t locate wider and evenly spaced blocks (well not without going the IRD route from SJS and paying quite a sum). I don’t like the large jump on the Shimano Megarange, but their 6 speed freewheel can still be found so that’s an option if one needing a suitable rear mech for 34T.

For what it’s worth I find that 48/34 on the front front and 14 - 28 on the back (on just a five speed freewheel) works OK for me. It might just be me but I find that smaller chainrings and loads of pressure on the peddles is a good way to bend axles, so don’t go too small. I use the lowest ratio a lot but climb most things and occasional walk part of a hill, I rarely use the highest ratio and am happiest cruising along level ground at a circa 65” gear. My way of doing things is cheap, effective and fairly reliable so it ticks my boxes; I think that it will work for you too, but YMMV.

I hope that the above helps.

cycle tramp
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Re: 6 speed upgrade options

Postby cycle tramp » 1 Feb 2020, 9:35pm

David9694 wrote:I’m completing a refurb of a 1984 Raleigh Record Ace, with its original 6 speed Campagnolo rear gears and a 52/42 Sugino GS chainset, original 27” wheels. I suspect the 28t max at the back won’t be enough. Is it simple to switch to a larger 32t 8 speed freewheel and mech?


If the chainrings of the crankset can be removed, then I'd think about reducing the their size to 48/38... and perhaps use an IRD freewheel with 13 to 32 teeth (subject to read deraileur abilities). It would give if you a low of about 32 inches and a high of 96 inches which should be reasonable...
(..if it helps I've been using a IRD freewheel for 3 and a half years, it still ticks like a clock :) )

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The utility cyclist
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Re: 6 speed upgrade options

Postby The utility cyclist » 2 Feb 2020, 1:03am

Suntour made sprockets up to 34T for their 5 and 6 speed freewheels, I saw a NOS 13-32T Suntour on ebay a bit back when looking for various stuff IIRC.

Bowedw
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Re: 6 speed upgrade options

Postby Bowedw » 2 Feb 2020, 6:18am

Your Sugino may be 110mm bcd, in which case it will accept an inner ring down to 34 tooth. If 130 bcd, then a 38 is available, or 39 if 135 bcd.
A 38/39 will give you a gear similar to a 32, this was a common route to take in the era of your bike.
A 52 ring would also for most of us be better replaced with a 48 or 50. Usually the average club run cyclist would spin along happily all day in the 38/39 with a 28 rear. I personally find the 34 sprocket is to low for general use and also observe that most cyclist use the 50/52, crossing the chain at an extreme angle most of the time. Most front Derailleurs of that era, should handle a change of tooth size if done with care and may even cope with a triple. After offering my opinion that 34 is low I rode to work with luggage and on short tours with a 86 bcd 32 inner and 44 outer and found the 32 ideal with panniers and a 28 on the rear.
My 1984 Record Ace now has a triple with 26/36/46 and a 10 freehub with a 32 on the rear.Old age does not come alone!
Ace frames where built to a good standard, if your measures 122 to 126 at the rear dropouts,it is relatively easy to widen to 130 with a piece of 3 x 2 timber, do half of the increase one side first and then the other side. I have done two Ace frames this way and had them checked with a frame builder and no additional adjustment was needed.
I did try to widen with a threaded rod and even after widening to an extreme width it sprung back to the original size, which if I recall was in the region of 124mm.

David9694
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Re: 6 speed upgrade options

Postby David9694 » 2 Feb 2020, 9:45am

Unusually, this time I bought a complete bike and I thought I’d try to run the original 12 speed system and dropout width. Thanks for all the advice - bigger freewheel looks like the only cost-effective way forward. I’ve managed to find some gold ESGE mudguards for it - it had lost its original GS front mech and levers, both of which I replaced.