Garmin vs Smartphone - are Garmin maps "special"?

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mikeymo
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Re: Garmin vs Smartphone - are Garmin maps "special"?

Postby mikeymo » 6 Feb 2020, 10:01am

Sweep wrote:The only advantage of the garmin map I could see was that it was fully postcode searchable but though that is handy when walking with it around town it isn't something I really need when cycling.


Actually, mine seems to be NOT fully postcode searchable. It gets me to the LS8 1 part, but no further. A brief internet search throws up people having the same problem.

If I've not misunderstood it, that's another bit of friction. I have to remember to get a street name of anywhere I'm going.

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Sweep
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Re: Garmin vs Smartphone - are Garmin maps "special"?

Postby Sweep » 6 Feb 2020, 10:07am

mikeymo wrote:
Sweep wrote:The only advantage of the garmin map I could see was that it was fully postcode searchable but though that is handy when walking with it around town it isn't something I really need when cycling.


Actually, mine seems to be NOT fully postcode searchable. It gets me to the LS8 1 part, but no further. A brief internet search throws up people having the same problem.

If I've not misunderstood it, that's another bit of friction. I have to remember to get a street name of anywhere I'm going.


maybe you have an older version.

Mine seemed to be.

OSMand has a very odd approach to postcodes - it appears to be able to handle them but then seems to throw up all sort of junk when you give it a postcode. Almost as if it's dyslexic. I mean, it's only six digits.
Sweep

mikeymo
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Re: Garmin vs Smartphone - are Garmin maps "special"?

Postby mikeymo » 6 Feb 2020, 10:16am

Sweep wrote:
mikeymo wrote:
Sweep wrote:The only advantage of the garmin map I could see was that it was fully postcode searchable but though that is handy when walking with it around town it isn't something I really need when cycling.


Actually, mine seems to be NOT fully postcode searchable. It gets me to the LS8 1 part, but no further. A brief internet search throws up people having the same problem.

If I've not misunderstood it, that's another bit of friction. I have to remember to get a street name of anywhere I'm going.


maybe you have an older version.

Mine seemed to be.

OSMand has a very odd approach to postcodes - it appears to be able to handle them but then seems to throw up all sort of junk when you give it a postcode. Almost as if it's dyslexic. I mean, it's only six digits.


Yes, the complaints I found about postcodes (we're talking UK here, yes?) were from a few years back. Mind you I only just bought this, and it can't be that old, the Edge Explore is a fairly new device. I'll maybe try updating the maps, I assume that's a thing I can do.

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Sweep
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Re: Garmin vs Smartphone - are Garmin maps "special"?

Postby Sweep » 6 Feb 2020, 10:20am

edit

I should have said "mine seemed to be able to".

ie - could handle full postcodes.

Not that I have a great need for it.
Sweep

Psamathe
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Re: Garmin vs Smartphone - are Garmin maps "special"?

Postby Psamathe » 6 Feb 2020, 11:12am

Sweep wrote:No the maps aren't special.

I acquired a second-hand one recently and it came with a full Garmin map (the one I had bought new before didn't).

The maps seemed to use the same OSM data but with lots taken out.
.....

I believe there is a significant lag between new data on OSM and it getting through to your Garmin device.

Last year in Germany I was using bridges over new'ish looking motorways that did not appear on my Garmin 1030 (updated just before departure) whilst my Smartphone OSM data based app had the motorway. It's not an issue (or has never been a issue for me) and it's rare so I would not count it as a negative.

In 2018 I did have an issue where the Garmin refused to recognise the Maassluis ferry west of Rotterdam and kept trying to route me long way upstream over a bridge (I had enabled use of ferries and other routes had made use of ferries fine). In the end I had to route to Rozenburg then a new route Maassluis to Hoek - and that is hardly a "new" ferry.

Ian

mercalia
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Re: Garmin vs Smartphone - are Garmin maps "special"?

Postby mercalia » 6 Feb 2020, 1:18pm

if any one wants to try offline alternative there is Cartograph, is available on both Android and Ios. The maps are free, the app is only a few £, shows tracks and paths and has styles. Is a good replacement for Landranger type maps 50k

screen shot.jpg



https://www.cartograph.eu/

mikeymo
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Re: Garmin vs Smartphone - are Garmin maps "special"?

Postby mikeymo » 6 Feb 2020, 2:49pm

Sweep wrote:edit

I should have said "mine seemed to be able to".

ie - could handle full postcodes.

Not that I have a great need for it.


Mine doesn't. Just updated both the maps and the OS.

After the first 3 digits - e.g. "LS8" it throws me back to a screen offering "LS8 ,1" or 2,3,4,5 (as the last digit). If I choose the first one it then asks for house number and then street name. If I persist by using the "back" button, then I can, after several of those, get to enter my own full postcode. At which point I get "No results found. Try adjusting search parameters". I've tried with and without spaces. And the many other ways I can think of to get at a full postcode address.

Those complaints (though not about this specific device) reporting a similar problem described it the same way. Basically Garmin doesn't want to accept those last 2 digits, but has it's own slightly convoluted way of getting to the precise address. What it does mean is that if somebody tells you - "my postcode is XXX XXX, number 12" this device won't find it.

Maybe there is a way. Though I've yet to find it. And here's the thing. If manufacturers make a consumer orientated device then it should be easy for the average consumer to use it. Though I can sorta kinda get round it, it's friction, and perhaps it tells me a little about the company. There might be a helpline, question is, can I face all that consumer assistance involves?

In fact, I found a youtube video of somebody using the 810, and postcodes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMX5o0tdmYA

The interface looks very very similar. Doing exactly the same steps, the point he gets to a 1:50 - a full postcode - is what I can't get to. Which presumably means that it's supposed to work the same, but there's a bug in the OS for the Edge Explore.

Just had a long conversation with Garmin. That's the way it works, it's not a bug that's going to be fixed.

I'll send it back. A navigation device that can't use full UK postcodes isn't something I'm interested in.

So, my first experience of Garmin has been a bit meh.

Nigel
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Re: Garmin vs Smartphone - are Garmin maps "special"?

Postby Nigel » 6 Feb 2020, 6:42pm

mikeymo wrote:I'm a casual cyclist. ………

My thinking is that I'd be better with a "rugged" Android (£100 ish?) and apps. There are some with 5500mAH batteries now. 4 times more than my iphone.



Slightly left-field option to add to your thinking: The Beeline device which links wirelessly to a phone (android or apple). So, phone in bag, safely stowed on bike, with extra battery pack, and BeeLine on handlebars exposed to the weather.

If you consider that option, read the BeeLine forums thoroughly to understand the pros and cons of the device. My own view is "nice idea, but not quite fully developed", but others may find it does what they need.


- Nigel

mikeymo
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Re: Garmin vs Smartphone - are Garmin maps "special"?

Postby mikeymo » 6 Feb 2020, 7:20pm

Nigel wrote:
mikeymo wrote:I'm a casual cyclist. ………

My thinking is that I'd be better with a "rugged" Android (£100 ish?) and apps. There are some with 5500mAH batteries now. 4 times more than my iphone.



Slightly left-field option to add to your thinking: The Beeline device which links wirelessly to a phone (android or apple). So, phone in bag, safely stowed on bike, with extra battery pack, and BeeLine on handlebars exposed to the weather.

If you consider that option, read the BeeLine forums thoroughly to understand the pros and cons of the device. My own view is "nice idea, but not quite fully developed", but others may find it does what they need.


- Nigel


Thanks for that, certainly dinky and easy to fit. I'll add it to my list of possibles.

The only downside battery life wise might be the bluetooth. By which I mean bluetooth on the phone. It turns out that on an iPhone GPS is still on when "airplane" mode is selected, so I'm hoping that means with downloaded maps any sat nav can be done without draining the battery much. But bluetooth would add to battery drain (but maybe not much).

Psamathe
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Re: Garmin vs Smartphone - are Garmin maps "special"?

Postby Psamathe » 6 Feb 2020, 7:34pm

mikeymo wrote:
Nigel wrote:
mikeymo wrote:I'm a casual cyclist. ………

My thinking is that I'd be better with a "rugged" Android (£100 ish?) and apps. There are some with 5500mAH batteries now. 4 times more than my iphone.



Slightly left-field option to add to your thinking: The Beeline device which links wirelessly to a phone (android or apple). So, phone in bag, safely stowed on bike, with extra battery pack, and BeeLine on handlebars exposed to the weather.

If you consider that option, read the BeeLine forums thoroughly to understand the pros and cons of the device. My own view is "nice idea, but not quite fully developed", but others may find it does what they need.


- Nigel


Thanks for that, certainly dinky and easy to fit. I'll add it to my list of possibles.

The only downside battery life wise might be the bluetooth. By which I mean bluetooth on the phone. It turns out that on an iPhone GPS is still on when "airplane" mode is selected, so I'm hoping that means with downloaded maps any sat nav can be done without draining the battery much. But bluetooth would add to battery drain (but maybe not much).

When I go for a ride e.g. 30 miles I use my iPhone to record a track (GPS on all the time) and iPhone talks to Garmin all the time via bluetooth (notification system) and the battery might drop 100% to 85%. It's the phone screen that eats through battery life not GPS or bluetooth LE.

Ian

Nigel
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Re: Garmin vs Smartphone - are Garmin maps "special"?

Postby Nigel » 7 Feb 2020, 1:32pm

As Ian says, the biggest drain on a phone is the screen(*). The next is trying to connect to weak WiFi or weak 3G/4G data signals (so turn off WiFi and turn off data). Then its GPS and Bluetooth, and the compass and/or orientation sensors. As it doesn't need the phone screen for navigation, the BeeLine has low impact on phone battery.

(*) a friend of mine, not overly up on "tech", fixed a phone to the handlebars in a pouch for a ride and used it to navigate. Because the screen was constantly on (setting, to save having to wake the phone to get information), the phone was about flat in under 4 hours.

- Nigel

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Sweep
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Re: Garmin vs Smartphone - are Garmin maps "special"?

Postby Sweep » 7 Feb 2020, 2:21pm

Nigel wrote:As Ian says, the biggest drain on a phone is the screen(*). The next is trying to connect to weak WiFi or weak 3G/4G data signals (so turn off WiFi and turn off data). Then its GPS and Bluetooth, and the compass and/or orientation sensors. As it doesn't need the phone screen for navigation, the BeeLine has low impact on phone battery.

(*) a friend of mine, not overly up on "tech", fixed a phone to the handlebars in a pouch for a ride and used it to navigate. Because the screen was constantly on (setting, to save having to wake the phone to get information), the phone was about flat in under 4 hours.

- Nigel

Interesting. This sounds to me like a big plus for my system, if the electronic loads are roughly the same for a dedicated gos.

ie:

Offline maps (no data needed)
Etrex (no built in battery and less calls on that battery).
No data or wifi connection at, all. Or voice network for that matter.
Screenlight off the vast majority of the time as point to point routing doesn't need constant vision of a breadcrumb trial.

Maybe not so old-fashioned impractical after all.
Sweep