Taillight with brake light function ..... everyday commuting

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rofan
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Taillight with brake light function ..... everyday commuting

Postby rofan » 6 Feb 2020, 7:59am

Just have a battery rear light with brake light function in my hands to test the functionality. According to the manufacturer, the brake light triggers at 1.6m / s² and that seems to be working. Is above the roll out at a traffic light e.g.
Visibility at a relevant distance is quite good during the day, very good at night.

With the increasing cycling traffic in cities it is sometimes tight, so that a warning function might make sense?
How is the experience with narrowly moving people and opinion on such a function of the daily / night travelers and commuters here?

(sorry, if translation is not very good. Hope, sense is clear)

tks

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mjr
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Re: Taillight with brake light function ..... everyday commuting

Postby mjr » 6 Feb 2020, 9:47am

No vehicle should be following a cycle close enough for the 2ish seconds extra notice of a sharp stop to matter. For gradualler stops, we have established signals for stopping (flapping/patting) and widely-understood ones for stopping (kerb hand up).

Cycling UK's precursor campaigned against rear lights for cycles. They were justified to do so. Let's not continue down that road to hell.
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LollyKat
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Re: Taillight with brake light function ..... everyday commuting

Postby LollyKat » 6 Feb 2020, 12:24pm

mjr wrote:For gradualler stops, we have established signals for stopping (flapping/patting) and widely-understood ones for stopping (kerb hand up).


Widely understood - are you sure? We older drivers had to perform hand signals including the flapping stop one during our driving tests but it seems it is no longer a requirment. As for "kerb hand up" - I've never seen or heard of it! And it's not intuitive either - if I want to indicate that I'm pulling into a kerb I point my hand diagonally down toward the kerb.

What would be really useful at complex junctions is a signal for going straight on. In Denmark I've seen it done as the offside hand hand pointing straight up (a bit like a police 'stop' sign), but I haven't found it in any offical list.

I agree that we don't need a brake light.

Jdsk
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Re: Taillight with brake light function ..... everyday commuting

Postby Jdsk » 6 Feb 2020, 12:40pm

My fancy dynamo lights can flash on deceleration, but I've never turned that on.
LollyKat wrote:What would be really useful at complex junctions is a signal for going straight on. In Denmark I've seen it done as the offside hand hand pointing straight up (a bit like a police 'stop' sign), but I haven't found it in any offical list.

I can't remember feeling the need for that... to whom would you be signalling? (You're right: nothing in the Highway Code.)

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mjr
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Re: Taillight with brake light function ..... everyday commuting

Postby mjr » 6 Feb 2020, 12:53pm

LollyKat wrote:Widely understood - are you sure? We older drivers had to perform hand signals including the flapping stop one during our driving tests but it seems it is no longer a requirment.

Let's continue this over in the recent hand signals discussion viewtopic.php?p=1441549#p1441549
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LollyKat
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Re: Taillight with brake light function ..... everyday commuting

Postby LollyKat » 6 Feb 2020, 12:54pm

Thanks - hadn't noticed that thread.

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NUKe
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Re: Taillight with brake light function ..... everyday commuting

Postby NUKe » 6 Feb 2020, 1:44pm

LollyKat wrote:
mjr wrote:For gradualler stops, we have established signals for stopping (flapping/patting) and widely-understood ones for stopping (kerb hand up).


Widely understood - are you sure? We older drivers had to perform hand signals including the flapping stop one during our driving tests but it seems it is no longer a requirment. As for "kerb hand up" - I've never seen or heard of it! And it's not intuitive either - if I want to indicate that I'm pulling into a kerb I point my hand diagonally down toward the kerb.

What would be really useful at complex junctions is a signal for going straight on. In Denmark I've seen it done as the offside hand hand pointing straight up (a bit like a police 'stop' sign), but I haven't found it in any offical list.

I agree that we don't need a brake light.

the signal you just described in America, in Cycling terms is used AS I am turning right. but as a friend said noboby uses ut.
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mjr
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Re: Taillight with brake light function ..... everyday commuting

Postby mjr » 6 Feb 2020, 1:51pm

NUKe wrote:the signal you just described in America, in Cycling terms is used AS I am turning right. but as a friend said noboby uses ut.

Yes, I think I read before cycling there that some American idiots had established something like the "Italian stop" signal to mean a turn, which then meant they established an even more bizarre inverted-fist-salute as a stop signal and, as you say, they're utterly unintuitive and pretty much nobody uses them.
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BlueRider
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Re: Taillight with brake light function ..... everyday commuting

Postby BlueRider » 6 Feb 2020, 2:05pm

rofan wrote:Just have a battery rear light with brake light function in my hands to test the functionality. According to the manufacturer, the brake light triggers at 1.6m / s² and that seems to be working. Is above the roll out at a traffic light e.g.
Visibility at a relevant distance is quite good during the day, very good at night.

With the increasing cycling traffic in cities it is sometimes tight, so that a warning function might make sense?
How is the experience with narrowly moving people and opinion on such a function of the daily / night travelers and commuters here?

(sorry, if translation is not very good. Hope, sense is clear)

tks


I have mulled over this a number of times and i would be willing to give a unit a go if i could be sure it was reliable enough (and reasonable cost).

My gut feeling would be that brake operated lights vs inertia would be better but i dunno. Certainly it would be good to follow a cyclist with them fitted.

You might get a comment about drivers not expecting a bike to have brake lights and ignore them but i think a proper implementation would negate that.

I would be keen to see how you get on with these .

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NUKe
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Re: Taillight with brake light function ..... everyday commuting

Postby NUKe » 6 Feb 2020, 2:43pm

I am always amazed how many cyclists don’t use hand signals they are a good way of asserting yourself on the road. That said the Slowing down signal is one I seldom find either Necessary or useful. The other problem is the vast majority of motorists. Do not understand that Flapping your arm up and down means stopping. Anyone know if Bileabilty still teaches it?
I see very limited value in A stop light on a bicycle Similarly the use of indicators which seem to appear from time to time. the ones built into helmets and operated wirelessly just didn’t need inventing.
NUKe

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Mike Sales
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Re: Taillight with brake light function ..... everyday commuting

Postby Mike Sales » 6 Feb 2020, 2:52pm

Anybody cycling who relies for their safety on drivers seeing and correctly interpreting cycle brake lights and indicators is going to regret doing so for as long as they live, which may not be very long.
If I need to communicate my intentions to a driver I do so with a large and demonstrative gesture, and then I check that they have understood and reacted before my manoeuvre.
Last edited by Mike Sales on 6 Feb 2020, 4:11pm, edited 1 time in total.

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freiston
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Re: Taillight with brake light function ..... everyday commuting

Postby freiston » 6 Feb 2020, 4:05pm

My rear (rack mounted) dynamo (StVZO) light has a brake-light function - as I understand, it is triggered by a sudden reduction in power coming from the dynamo and it pulses power from the stand-light capacitor to the LED. I might have seen it in action when I first got the dynamo lights and my nephew took the bike round the block but I can't remember. Other than that, I'm always facing the other way when I'm braking and so I don't know how effective/obvious it is. I didn't buy the light for the brake-light - it just so happened that it was the light that took my fancy for other reasons. I certainly don't think that they should be promoted as a safety device and I think it would be a bad thing if they became ubiquitous because the lack of one could be employed in victim blaming. I feel guilty for having one now :oops:
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)

wirral_cyclist
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Re: Taillight with brake light function ..... everyday commuting

Postby wirral_cyclist » 6 Feb 2020, 6:14pm

The problem with all these light systems like brake lights and indicators is that you can't be sure the damn things are actually working, just use a hand signal as you know you've done it (and a reflector covering you for duff rear lighting).
I wouldn't use the flappy slowing down signal to a motorist, I do use it in group rides though.

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Re: Taillight with brake light function ..... everyday commuting

Postby zenitb » 6 Feb 2020, 9:42pm

I have the Busch und Muller version of Stop Light in my gear stash .. as yet unfitted. As I understand it it measures the frequency of the AC signal coming from the dynamo hub ..(ok its actually an alternator) which is proportional to speed. If it detects a sudden drop in the frequency then it illuminates brightly - indicating you are braking. I have yet to attach it to the bike and try it .. which I guess indicates the low priority I put on having a brake light. That said my newer commuter bike has v.powerful disk brakes so maybe worth digging out and trying out for the times I slam the brakes on in town ...