Touring tyre for a narrow rim

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pwa
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Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby pwa » 14 Feb 2020, 10:02am

The rim in question is the old Mavic Open Pro Ceramic which, if memory serves, was recommended to have tyres no wider than 28mm.

The bike (wife's) will be carrying her and 2 panniers, mainly on road but with stretches of carefully negotiated forest track.

Any suggestions on tyres that may fit the bill?

If the rim were not limiting, the frame also crates clearance issues so wider touring tyres are not an option.

Current tyres on the bike are old Marathon Supremes in 28mm but they don't do the new versions in that size.

PH
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby PH » 14 Feb 2020, 10:26am

For a decent touring tyre in that size I've used the 30mm Marathon Racer, which is a little undersized, also used the Panaracer Pasela which I like though the sidewalls have a reputation for being vulnerable. I've toured on both without issue and without limiting myself to good surfaces, though care is required when it gets rough.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby PDQ Mobile » 14 Feb 2020, 10:31am

Marathon Racer?
Roll pretty well and in my experience are fine on packed gravel and forest tracks.
Puncture record is good.
Reflective sidewall.
Take a good pressure.
Easy to fit.
Have them on two bikes in, it must be said, a bigger size.
Would fit again.

Ps.
PH got there first!
Agree about undersized compared to some.

RRSODL
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby RRSODL » 14 Feb 2020, 10:33am

I have Marathon Mondial 50mm on my Archetype rims. They have been good for light off road and pavement, I bought the same for my wife's bike. The best I found that copes with my needs ( road, gravel, sand, off road tracks )

pwa
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby pwa » 14 Feb 2020, 10:34am

PH wrote:For a decent touring tyre in that size I've used the 30mm Marathon Racer, which is a little undersized, also used the Panaracer Pasela which I like though the sidewalls have a reputation for being vulnerable. I've toured on both without issue and without limiting myself to good surfaces, though care is required when it gets rough.


Yes, I was thinking of Paselas, which I commuted on for a decade or more. As you say, the only slight concern is the sidewall on poor surfaces but whatever tyre we use it will not be an MTB tyre and must be used with care. Definitely a tyre to consider. I hadn't thought of the Marathon Racer (30mm) so I'll ponder that too. Thanks for those ideas.

mattheus
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby mattheus » 14 Feb 2020, 10:35am

First I would check Mavic's table of tyre sizes (on their web-site). It is often more generous than other recommendations.

(e.g I've run 37mm on the old Open Pros (metal) ! Can't remember the official limit … )

pwa
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby pwa » 14 Feb 2020, 11:16am

mattheus wrote:First I would check Mavic's table of tyre sizes (on their web-site). It is often more generous than other recommendations.

(e.g I've run 37mm on the old Open Pros (metal) ! Can't remember the official limit … )

The rims are perhaps 17 years old so info will be archive stuff. I'm pretty sure when they were on sale they were either 25 or 28 max rated by Mavic. But you ran 37mm? Interesting. I think problems with clearances would still limit us to a slimish 32mm but that does open up the possibility of Supremes, no longer made in 28mm.

pwa
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby pwa » 14 Feb 2020, 11:23am

This is the very worst section of our route, which I know will be a test for any 28mm tyre. But apart from about 3 miles in total of this we will have 450 miles of something resembling tarmac.

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1997060

Brucey
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby Brucey » 14 Feb 2020, 11:25am

I've run tyres which measure 32mm when fitted on even narrower 13C rims. Old Open Pros are nominally 15C but measure about 14.5mm in practice. Tyre and rim recommendations have become more generous in recent years, but do note that if you fit wider tyres to any rim, the maximum allowable pressure needs to be reduced pro rata, else the rim itself can also be overload. However I also note the following things when running wide tyres on narrow rims;

a) the steering is horrible unless the front tyre is basically overinflated (for the load it sees)
b) the rear end also soon starts feeling 'floppy' if the pressures drop below normal
c) I have a suspicion that the tyres receive harsher treatment near the rim lip when they are fitted to narrow rims, and that this may tend to provoke sidewall failures.

So I'd suggest (with a rear load) a slightly narrower front tyre than rear might be best. If the loads are modest enough, you can get some really fast rolling tyres in 32mm section, e.g. some of the lighter Conti models; they roll really well. A 32mm rear and a 28mm front GP5000 might be a really fast, comfy setup for a light rider/load. Obviously if you want more robust puncture proof tyres there are alternatives.

cheers
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bgnukem
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby bgnukem » 14 Feb 2020, 11:27am

FWIW I get away with 32mm Panaracer Pasela PTs on narrow rims - Rigida Chrinas which are 13.5mm internal width so similar to your Open Pros I think.

The sidewalls are not reinforced though so for dirt tracks it might be safer with something with tougher sidewalls. Having said that, I rode plenty of gravel roads in New Zealand on Paselas and didn't have a flat.

pwa
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby pwa » 14 Feb 2020, 11:40am

One advantage of the Pasela 32mm suggestion is that I have an old semi-knackered one in the garage and can play around with it to see how the clearance works on the bike in question. It is a tyre that will need care on gravel, but I never found them as fragile as some people suggested. I think they may come up a bit small too, which may assist with clearance.

Brucey's idea of a wider tyre on the back gets me thinking. The back doesn't have the same clearance issues. It is also where most of the weight is taken.

mattheus
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby mattheus » 14 Feb 2020, 12:09pm

pwa wrote:
mattheus wrote:First I would check Mavic's table of tyre sizes (on their web-site). It is often more generous than other recommendations.

(e.g I've run 37mm on the old Open Pros (metal) ! Can't remember the official limit … )

The rims are perhaps 17 years old so info will be archive stuff. I'm pretty sure when they were on sale they were either 25 or 28 max rated by Mavic. But you ran 37mm? Interesting. I think problems with clearances would still limit us to a slimish 32mm but that does open up the possibility of Supremes, no longer made in 28mm.


I don't think you need archive data; if you're lucky, the rims will still have a label (e.g. 15C, 13C or 17C). failing that, you can measure them yourself.

The table I mentioned is on their current website, and I've assumed that it applies to old and new parts! It just charts internal rim width against tyre size (separate chart for tubeless).

tatanab
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby tatanab » 14 Feb 2020, 12:18pm

pwa wrote:This is the very worst section of our route, which I know will be a test for any 28mm tyre. But apart from about 3 miles in total of this we will have 450 miles of something resembling tarmac.

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1997060
I use old Open Pros and other manufacturers' equivalents. For at least the last 8 years I have toured on Michelin Pro 4 Endurance size 25. This is their old 25 which is closer to a 28 when measured, for the last couple of years they have been doing them in 25 and 28. I think the "new" 28 is the same as my "old" 25. This is cycle camping on roads with a few forest tracks thrown in. I would have no qualms at all using these tyres at those widths on the track you have pictured.

pwa
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby pwa » 14 Feb 2020, 12:20pm

I still have a bit of thinking to do but at the moment I am leaning towards 32mm Marathon Supremes and hoping that they will go okay with the old Open Pro Ceramics with the light weight of my wife on board, with 2 panniers. I think it likely that I can just about get the mudguard clearance right without compromising on toe clearance. A bit of guard manipulation may be in order.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 14 Feb 2020, 12:28pm

Hi,
pwa wrote:This is the very worst section of our route, which I know will be a test for any 28mm tyre. But apart from about 3 miles in total of this we will have 450 miles of something resembling tarmac.

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1997060

In that case use what you have and carry a spare tyre, which would be prudent on tours anyway.
If you were doing two thousand miles maybe careful choice of tyres, but 450 not so much so.
People go on about reducing pressures but keeping air in prevents those snake bites, on or off road.

When I did the devon and corwall coast last year I had an all up weight of about 100-105 kgs on 23mm tyres with no protection.
Started on 120 psi and finished on about 80psi as I did not put any air in in over a week.
I had to negotiate many off road cycle paths including greenlanes in the dark, but not a single flat or sliced tyre.

Just a thought :)
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