Touring tyre for a narrow rim

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Carlton green
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Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby Carlton green » 15 Feb 2020, 12:12pm

A couple of points that I forgot to add in my post above.

I run the same brand and model 27 x 1&1/4 tyres on two bikes, and one of those bikes also has a mix of wider and narrower tyres of the same nominal size. There is a matter of just a few mm inflation width between them all but the level of shock absorption is easy to notice. So, just a small difference in inflated width might well make a big difference in comfort and shock absorption.

If you take a selection of tyres of the same nominal width and measure them then you’ll notice a marked variation in size. Open the tyre up, lay it flat across the width of its carcass and measure. A visit to a cycle shop, a larger Halfords even, will give you chance to explore that feature. As might be expected the tyres (of any nominal size) that measure the widest across their carcass tend to inflate the widest too.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby Brucey » 15 Feb 2020, 12:19pm

IME forks vary a lot in stiffness, and this (along with tyre pressure of course) can be much more important than a few mm of tyre width in terms of the ride quality.

A fairer test is to use different wheels in the same bike, rather than different wheels in different bikes.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Carlton green
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Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby Carlton green » 15 Feb 2020, 1:50pm

Brucey wrote:IME forks vary a lot in stiffness, and this (along with tyre pressure of course) can be much more important than a few mm of tyre width in terms of the ride quality.

A fairer test is to use different wheels in the same bike, rather than different wheels in different bikes.

cheers


Absolutely, I’m sure that you’re right and doubtless there are many other frame and wheel variations to consider too. Over the years I’ve tried different rims and tyres on the same two bikes - interchanged wheel-sets too - so seeing what worked for me on those bikes and changing (just) one variable at a time. Of course my experience and knowledge is limited and my experiments certainly aren’t perfect in every respect, I just pass on what indicative results I’ve observed and hope that they might be of help to somebody else.

pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby pwa » 15 Feb 2020, 2:20pm

My wife's bike has loads of clearance at the back so I'm inclined just to go for 32mm Marathon Supreme there, with the front wheel possibly needing a 28mm tyre of another sort simply because Supremes aren't done in that size anymore. So if the front tyre is a bit heavier, it is just one tyre and not two. Somebody suggested Green Guards, which apart from a bit of extra weight might be a good choice.

pwa
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby pwa » 15 Feb 2020, 5:52pm

Does anyone have any real idea what the difference in ride would be between having two Marathon Supreme tyres and two Marathon Original Green Guard tyres? The latter are heavier, I know, but the Green Guard look more robust for the occasional gravel section. And I can get Green Guard in 28mm which matters for my wife's bike. She currently has 28mm Supremes front and rear. Would 32mm GG rear and 28mm GG front slow her down much? Or would it be a subtle thing?

willem jongman
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Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm

Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby willem jongman » 15 Feb 2020, 9:17pm

I would always go for the widest tyres possible. With tyres up to 32 mm rims are unlikely to be a problem unless the rim is ultra light.
I had similar clearance issues with sks mudguards, and steel Gilles Berthoud mudguards gave crucial additional clearance, if only because the stays are on the outside, but also because they are stiffer.
Last edited by willem jongman on 15 Feb 2020, 9:38pm, edited 1 time in total.

reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby reohn2 » 15 Feb 2020, 9:35pm

New to the thread but if not mentioned already RibMos take some beating for ride quality,longevity,and they roll very well indeed.
Also they measure up true to size,highly recommended
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I cycle therefore I am.

roubaixtuesday
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Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby roubaixtuesday » 15 Feb 2020, 9:49pm

pwa wrote:This is the very worst section of our route, which I know will be a test for any 28mm tyre. But apart from about 3 miles in total of this we will have 450 miles of something resembling tarmac.

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1997060


Blimey. I've ridden 23mm roadie tyres over far, far worse

Any 28mm tyre will be fine for three miles of that, I'd have thought.

mattsccm
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby mattsccm » 16 Feb 2020, 7:17am

A above. I wouldn't be worrying about tyres too much for that. The short cut home from my club TT is worse than that and I ride my TT bike with fag paper clearances and 23mm tubs on it.
It is easier with bigger tyres of course but it is easy to forget how robust tyres are.

pwa
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby pwa » 19 Feb 2020, 3:12pm

Brief update.

In the end I just played it safe and a bit conservative and put a 28mm Marathon "original" Greenguard on. I reasoned that it is a good general purpose tyre and if my wife doesn't like it between now and the tour in August we can put something else on. The rim is an old Open Pro Ceramic and without too much trouble I got the tyre on without levers. It looks good. I also tried a 32mm and it was, as suspected, too big. Too tall, to be precise.

The tour involves a few miles of gravel and an unknown amount of dodgy tarmac so a robust tyre seems like a good idea. But as I say, we will put some miles into it before the tour.

I bought several sizes in the same tyre, for different bikes, and the larger the size the bigger the tread pattern. The 28mm does not feel overly rigid. The tyre wall feels robust but not unyielding. The rubber of the tread actually gives a bit under the thumb. I think it will grip well.

wjhall
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Joined: 1 Sep 2014, 8:46am

Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby wjhall » 19 Feb 2020, 3:51pm

Schwalbe HS420s seem to be indestructable and come in several widths.

I liked Panaracer Tour Guards*, rigid not folding, and the children used them for camping, but I have exhausted my stock, because I wanted 28-630, a size not currently available in this country on that tyre, but believe them still available in 622. Even on the rigid the side walls can be a bit thin, the folding version I decided to keep strictly as an in pannier spare, because the walls seemed yet thinner.

So I have moved onto Continental Supersport, which seem to be robust, but possibly a bit tight to get on and off. I have had to use tyre levers to fit them, for the first time in decades, so am not looking forward to field puncture repairs.

The Schwalbe HS159 described as 28/32-630 on a family bike hanging up in the garage do seem to be about 30, but may now be a clearance item in 630 diameter only.

These comments do all apply to fairly lightly loaded road use, apart from the occasional 2 or 3 km on useful local tracks, and the HS420, which I have thought more suitable for heavy shopping, which is probably why you have just posted that you chose them.


* Corrected 20 Feb.
Last edited by wjhall on 20 Feb 2020, 8:37am, edited 1 time in total.

pwa
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby pwa » 19 Feb 2020, 5:59pm

wjhall wrote:Schwalbe HS420s seem to be indestructable and come in several widths.

I liked Panaracer PTs, rigid not folding, but have exhausted my stock, because I wanted 28-630, a size not currently available in this country on that tyre, but believe them still available in 622. Even on the rigid the side walls can be a bit thin.

So I have moved onto Continental Supersport, which seem to be robust, but possibly a bit tight to get on and off. I have had to use tyre levers to fit them, for the first time in decades, so am not looking forward to field puncture repairs.

The Schwalbe HS159 described as 28/32-630 on a family bike hanging up in the garage do seem to be about 30, but may now be a clearance item in 630 diameter only.

These comments do all apply to fairly lightly loaded road use, apart from the occasional 2 or 3 km on useful local tracks, and the HS420, which I have thought more suitable for heavy shopping, which is probably why you have just posted that you chose them.

HS420 bought for a tour with camping gear, so panniers etc, and taking us over the occasional few miles of gravel and lanes of uncertain surface. They are on the heavier duty side of what I'd be happy with, but not unacceptably so. I'd have favoured the lighter Supremes and taken a risk on gravel but they are no longer made in 28mm. So we will go a bit slower but enjoy the extra reassurance on rough surfaces. Spa fit them as standard on touring bikes so they must be fine.

I like Paselas but the sidewalls are vulnerable so I decided against.

pwa
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby pwa » 20 Feb 2020, 1:14pm

While putting a 32mm tyre on my wife's rear wheel I noted that the little label on the old Open Pro ceramic rim advised nothing wider than 28mm, which I kind of knew. So officially I am pushing at the envelope. But I also noted the max pressure for a 28mm tyre on that rim, which is 117psi. That is a bit higher than I thought would be the case for that width. The 32mm tyre will probably end up being run at about 75 psi, with fingers crossed. I pumped it up to 85psi to see if I could induce any problems and no, it just sits there nicely.

The Marathon Greenguard (HS420) is a no-nonsense rugged tyre and a bit heavy, but the actual tread rubber has some give. And rolling the bike around on our not-too-smooth street with its rough chipping top surface and the tyre at high pressure reveals some real muting of the vibrations from the road. I have read that this tyre is harsh, but it doesn't feel that way to me. It does take some sting out of the road's imperfections. Even at high pressure. This could be because the tyres are new and have a full depth of the flexy tread material. A worn tyre might lose some of that vibration damping.

(For those of you who may be concerned, no levers were employed in the fitting of these tyres and no inner tubes were harmed)

Brucey
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby Brucey » 20 Feb 2020, 4:39pm

as I mentioned upthread, you indeed shouldn't run wider tyres at anything more than a pressure that results in a similar load on the rim, e.g.

(28 x 117)/32 = 102.

In reality it isn't a bad idea to be more cautious than this but 75psi should be fine.

cheers
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pwa
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Re: Touring tyre for a narrow rim

Postby pwa » 20 Feb 2020, 5:02pm

Brucey wrote:as I mentioned upthread, you indeed shouldn't run wider tyres at anything more than a pressure that results in a similar load on the rim, e.g.

(28 x 117)/32 = 102.

In reality it isn't a bad idea to be more cautious than this but 75psi should be fine.

cheers

That's what I thought. A lightweight lady and two small panniers should not need more than 75psi or thereabouts in the rear tyre (32mm).