RX-RD5; another flawed Sturmey Archer 5s hub? -surely not....

[Brucey]

yes you can just replace the internals but SG-501 is now quite an old model; you may struggle to find the correct internal on sale, and it is not certain that a later internal will fit in the hubshell you have. If it does fit then there is usually a lot of messing about with seals and so forth in A8/N8 transplants.

A further complication is that A8 hubs have changed from low normal (like yours) to high normal. If you do get a different model internal to fit, you may have to get used to a reversed shift sequence.

Personally I'd probably use the hub (in non critical applications) and monitor its condition in use/ by looking at the oil.

cheers

[mikeymo]

yes you can just replace the internals but SG-501 is now quite an old model; you may struggle to find the correct internal on sale, and it is not certain that a later internal will fit in the hubshell you have. If it does fit then there is usually a lot of messing about with seals and so forth in A8/N8 transplants.

A further complication is that A8 hubs have changed from low normal (like yours) to high normal. If you do get a different model internal to fit, you may have to get used to a reversed shift sequence.

Personally I'd probably use the hub (in non critical applications) and monitor its condition in use/ by looking at the oil.

cheers

Thanks. I think there's a few NOS Alfine 8s (SG-501) kicking about. Presumably if it is an actual 501 replacement innards it should work? I've got cantis on this bike, is there a difference in the hubs between disc/rim brakes? Well, obviously there will be a centrelock fitting or something for discs, but can those bits be transfered from the old to the new (or vica versa).

[Brucey]

if it is a 501 internal it should fit OK, but do check that there isn't more than one axle length.

IIRC the difference between the rim brake version and the disc brake version is a small rubber cover over the disc mount.

cheers

[Greystoke]

I think you're better off with an aw3 and 2 cogs & derailleur making a 6 speed setup than risking it with a sa 5 speed.
Or getting hold of a really old 5 speed like Brucie's 80000m setup.

[Carlton green]

For the UK climate a good reliable hub gear would be ideal on a utility or commuter bike but are ANY of them reliable apart from a 40 year old 3-speed???

a few are OK but they are the exception. In choosing between IGHs and derailleurs, it is arguably a question of choosing your preferred poison.

cheers

He’s right you know. I run the simplest geared bikes that I can and accept that they might not be super efficient or capable of climbing up the steepest of slopes. Sometimes we ask too much of our bikes and the marketing men are happy to sell us an expensive and profitable dream.

My Sach five speed hub is no longer made but for me it has been everything that I hoped for, certainly massively better than a Sturmey Five that I owned years ago. I’ve rebuilt a couple of SA AW hubs recently, on is pre NIG and the other is NIG design, and will be building one into a wheel for my around town bike (a replacement transmission for the non supported but wonderful Sach). The AW will suffice for its purpose and folk have used the humble 3 speed to cover great distances - in so far as anything does they have earned a reputation for working well and reliably - so a palatable poison. My touring bike uses a five speed 14 - 28 block, friction levers, double chain wheel and a short arm derailleur; it’s simple, doesn’t require massive amounts of attention and is generally not too fussy - so far it delivers against realistic expectations and has been a palatable poison.

It seems to me that the simpler something is the better it works and there is, of course, an art to making something complex into something simple but very functional. So, for me at least, the better arrangements are the (carefully designed to be) simplest.

[robc02]

Everything I read about hub gears on this forum puts me right off them.

Even worse that Sturmey managed to engineer a reliable 3-speed hub then totally dropped the ball with anything else, and repeated the same mistakes.

For the UK climate a good reliable hub gear would be ideal on a utility or commuter bike but are ANY of them reliable apart from a 40 year old 3-speed???

funny that you should say that. exactly my thoughts too. hence my commuter bike remains fixed. the climb on my way home seems to lengthen year by year though.

good OP

I agree, three speeds are the most reliable, though 4 speeds (FW, FG) are OK as well. So that's fine then! My undulating, rural, transmission eating commute is well served by either. Much more economical than derailleurs, more comfortable than fixed.
I like fixed, and used it for many years, but it does get a bit of a grind in a few places locally, especially on an empty stomach on the way home from work!

[Gearoidmuar]

I know nothing about the guts of hubs, but I've three bikes with hub gears at the moment.
First, a dualdrive folder with a Sturmey 3sp hub and an 8sp cassette. I don't cycle it a lot but it has been zero trouble and has a huge gear range. They've stopped making them, I understand.
Second: A NEXUS-8 in a belt-drive hybrid. This has given no trouble. I've done about 2000m on it so far. I really like the no-maintenance aspect of it.
Third: A Rohloff geared touring bike. This has been brilliant. I had it adjusted at about 13000m by Rohloff (free of charge.. one dodgy change but no failure ) and it's now at 30,000. I love the range, the even spacing of gears, the zero back wheel problems and just the sheer ease of changing gear. I've done Lejog three times on it. Have yet to change the internal cable though I carry a spare kit when touring.

I think Brucey should be taken on as an advisor by some hub company. He knows his pinions from his bunions!

[Brucey]

I've now added part two, with a couple of photos of the hub internal parts. One way of looking at it is that it doesn't matter how heavily built a hub gear might be, if there is the slightest weakness, someone will find a way of breaking it. RX-RD5 is one of the heaviest hub gears you can buy; about 800g more than X-RD5 and 900g more than X-RD3, yet it wasn't proof against breakage.

cheers

[Mike_Ayling]

Everything I read about hub gears on this forum puts me right off them.

You seldom have problems with a Rohloff!

Start saving now!

Mike

[Carlton green]

I've now added part two, with a couple of photos of the hub internal parts. One way of looking at it is that it doesn't matter how heavily built a hub gear might be, if there is the slightest weakness, someone will find a way of breaking it. RX-RD5 is one of the heaviest hub gears you can buy; about 800g more than X-RD5 and 900g more than X-RD3, yet it wasn't proof against breakage.

cheers

Any chain is only as strong as its weakest link and all other things have the same limitation; the averaged strength and durability of all the individual parts is irrelevant if any part is weak or subject to early failure.

[Brucey]

well yeah, of course, but in many cases that weak link is arguably the person using the thing.

If you neglect/abuse a bike for long enough, something is gonna break.

cheers

[Brucey]

the insides of the shifter were not a pretty sight;

brown is the fashionable colour for shifter internals this year

Unsurprisingly the detent disc inside the shifter is rather badly worn, so this shifter will never shift as intended ever again.

cheers

[Greystoke]

I have to agree with Carlton Green. Simplicity works for me too.
Why have more gears than you ever use. The Supercommuter thread is a good example.
If SA actually resolved the issues in their hubs I'd buy a 5 speed off them.

[Brucey]

a big issue which stymied the adoption of an IGH for the supercommuter was the lack of a current IGH with close ratios. If I'd had a box full of AM internals then maybe one of those would have worked OK.

When I embarked on my adventure with a 5s gear (converted FW) on my then training bike, I'd used an FG gear already for more local runs. I'd also used 3s hubs extensively. I liked the idea of more gears ratios in a 5s (for the hills ) and I liked the idea that the middle gear ratios were a bit closer than in a 3s hub. However I was acutely aware that pretty much every other cyclist didn't have a good word to say about any IGH let alone a 5s. At that time the SA 5s hub was the most complex and expensive hub gear made. I was sufficiently concerned that I only chose to use the converted FW internal on the basis that it fitted into the same shell as would accept a (simpler, more reliable) 3s internal. Indeed for many years I had a 3s internal on the shelf, ready to go, and it would have been a simple swap; even the RH shifter for the 5s hub would have worked the 3s hub without any change.

Arguably a saving grace for even current SA (toggle chain, not rotary shifting) 3s gears is that you can swap an internal (even an older AW internal) into a current shell. It takes about fifteen minutes to swap a 3s internal out, if you know what you are doing, and only 45 minutes or so if you don't. Three speed blow-ups don't often result in a bike that doesn't work at all, not without plenty of warning, anyway. So I think a three speed hub, (or even a five speed hub in some cases) is a viable option (for anyone who is prepared to have and swap a spare internal) even if they demand continuity of use and good (easy) repairability.

cheers

[SA_SA_SA]

Would it be much work for sunrace to mod the old fashioned trigger 3 speed shifter to use easily available derailleur cable and then return to it as the standard 3 speed shifter?

(the only plus of my 3speed nimbus control is it can take derailleur cable)