Does angle of stem matter?

[mikeymo]

I've got a fair bit of steerer above my stem. I'd like to saw it off. But I worry (just a little bit) that at some point in the future I might want higher bars. But if I did I could fit a stem with a steepish upwards angle, yes? That would be the same as a taller steerer tube and a 90 deg stem, wouldn't it? So long as the bars are in the same position relative to the rest of the frame, it doesn't make any difference how they got there, does it?

[tim-b]

Hi
What's the steerer made from?
How much steerer above and below the stem?
Can you safely lift the stem up the steerer and flip it to a negative angle, and flip it back as needed? You can look at this graphically if that helps (link)
Regards
tim-b

[Marcus Aurelius]

You can get a bit more height by using a positive angled stem. You could even flip a slightly negative angled stem over, to get a bit more height. If you do decide to cut your steerer down a bit, measure twice, cut once. If you have a Carbon steerer, be very careful with it, if you have to clamp it into anything to hold it whilst you cut it.

[Greystoke]

Why did someone think quill stems were a bad idea?

[pwa]

I've got a fair bit of steerer above my stem. I'd like to saw it off. But I worry (just a little bit) that at some point in the future I might want higher bars. But if I did I could fit a stem with a steepish upwards angle, yes? That would be the same as a taller steerer tube and a 90 deg stem, wouldn't it? So long as the bars are in the same position relative to the rest of the frame, it doesn't make any difference how they got there, does it?

You are basically right. You can flip stems, you can alter their position in a stack of spacers, and you can buy stems with different angles. All those alter the height, and you have a choice between them. My own preference is for a stem that is close to horizontal, so I arrange the spacers to get it at the right sort of height with it that way, then I leave a 10mm spacer above that. It looks okay to me. And if I ever want the bars a bit higher I can flip the stem to an upward angle, and I can rearrange the spacers a little. And of course, if in any doubt cut the steerer long and ride the bike a bit before, if necessary, cutting it a bit lower. The topmost spacer (above the stem) needs to be a few mm (2 or 3) above the lip of the steerer to prevent the top cap touching the steerer. If it did so it would not be able to pull the bearings together as it is meant to.

[thatsnotmyname]

Why did someone think quill stems were a bad idea?

They weren’t a ‘bad’ idea as such. They’ve simply been superseded by a far better, more practical solution.

And in reference to a comment earlier- a positive angle stem becomes a negative angle stem simply by flipping it.

[Greystoke]

As I've got older I've been able to simply raise the stem to suit my preferred riding style....simple

[mikeymo]

Thanks for all the replies folks. It's this at the moment:



I built the bike from scratch a couple of years ago. It's a steel frame (the forks are Reynolds 520 I think).

That's the height I started off at, and I'm comfortable with it. There's 50mm under it (in 5 spacers, I'll do it with less, SJS do a 48mm one) and 30 mm above it.

I thought I'd turn that stem the other way up, and put another 10mm spacer under it, so the bars will end up in the same place, then cut the rest off, though I would leave a tiny bit of steerer above the stem, so the stem is clamping the steerer properly. I know it might not matter on a steel steerer, but it would offend me otherwise.

So that way I could always reverse the stem, in the future, to gain a bit more height, or if necessary buy something like this:

https://www.tredz.co.uk/.BBB-HighRise-MTB-Stem_60927.htm?sku=176507&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google_shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIj6PVlevk5wIVRrDtCh12VwhFEAQYASABEgIDNPD_BwE

Sounds like a plan, eh? Though as you can see, it's not particularly low as it is. Just that I'm not getting any younger, strangely enough.

[mikeymo]

Why did someone think quill stems were a bad idea?

They weren’t a ‘bad’ idea as such. They’ve simply been superseded by a far better, more practical solution.

And in reference to a comment earlier- a positive angle stem becomes a negative angle stem simply by flipping it.

Actually I've thought about a quill stem. Even to the extent of wondering if I could get somebody to cut a thread on this steerer. Or changing the whole thing and getting a frame built to order, as that would probably the only way to get a threaded headset/quill stem/disc brakes combo.

In another discussion (with Brucey of course) the other advantage of quill stem bikes that was pointed out was the longevity of the headset bearings, as threaded headsets are far more immune to water ingress.

So the two advantages of quill stems are adjustability and long lived bearings.

Genuine question (to stop me spending £1000 at Bob Jackson on a new frame!) - what makes threadless headsets a "far better, more practical solution"?

[pwa]

Thanks for all the replies folks. It's this at the moment:



I built the bike from scratch a couple of years ago. It's a steel frame (the forks are Reynolds 520 I think).

That's the height I started off at, and I'm comfortable with it. There's 50mm under it (in 5 spacers, I'll do it with less, SJS do a 48mm one) and 30 mm above it.

I thought I'd turn that stem the other way up, and put another 10mm spacer under it, so the bars will end up in the same place, then cut the rest off, though I would leave a tiny bit of steerer above the stem, so the stem is clamping the steerer properly. I know it might not matter on a steel steerer, but it would offend me otherwise.

So that way I could always reverse the stem, in the future, to gain a bit more height, or if necessary buy something like this:

https://www.tredz.co.uk/.BBB-HighRise-MTB-Stem_60927.htm?sku=176507&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google_shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIj6PVlevk5wIVRrDtCh12VwhFEAQYASABEgIDNPD_BwE

Sounds like a plan, eh? Though as you can see, it's not particularly low as it is. Just that I'm not getting any younger, strangely enough.

Purely for aesthetic reasons I would do more or less as you suggest and flip the stem to make it nearer to horizontal, moving the spacers around to keep the bars at about the same height. But I would still leave a 10mm or so of spacer above the stem if for no other reason that stems vary a little and a future stem may require a little more steerer than the current one. 10mm looks okay so why not leave that much just in case?

[thatsnotmyname]

Genuine question (to stop me spending £1000 at Bob Jackson on a new frame!) - what makes threadless headsets a "far better, more practical solution"?

I thought the thread was about stems, not headsets? My comment certainly was.

[pwa]

Why did someone think quill stems were a bad idea?

They weren’t a ‘bad’ idea as such. They’ve simply been superseded by a far better, more practical solution.

And in reference to a comment earlier- a positive angle stem becomes a negative angle stem simply by flipping it.

Actually I've thought about a quill stem. Even to the extent of wondering if I could get somebody to cut a thread on this steerer. Or changing the whole thing and getting a frame built to order, as that would probably the only way to get a threaded headset/quill stem/disc brakes combo.

In another discussion (with Brucey of course) the other advantage of quill stem bikes that was pointed out was the longevity of the headset bearings, as threaded headsets are far more immune to water ingress.

So the two advantages of quill stems are adjustability and long lived bearings.

Genuine question (to stop me spending £1000 at Bob Jackson on a new frame!) - what makes threadless headsets a "far better, more practical solution"?

They don't get stuck in the steerer like quill stems do if you don't grease them regularly, and they don't rotate when you don't want them to like quill stems do when you grease them to stop them getting stuck. The bearings on threadless headsets last as long as those on threaded headsets if they are good units in the first place (buy a Hope unit if you want something particularly good) and if you pack plenty of grease in there. I find them easier to adjust than threaded and you don't need huge thin special spanners for them. You can do all you need to do with one allen key usually. And stem choice is huge. I'd not go back to quill stems. I was delighted when my last one went for scrap. I had them for decades and hated them.

To get the best out of your stem / headset you do need to know how to adjust things, but it doesn't take too much skill to get it right. I commuted in all weathers with a threadless headset and it took about ten years before my near total neglect made it fail. My local bike shop replaced it in no time. Very often it is just the bearings that need changing. But you shouldn't have to think about that for a long time. Especially as you use mudguards.

[mikeymo]

Genuine question (to stop me spending £1000 at Bob Jackson on a new frame!) - what makes threadless headsets a "far better, more practical solution"?

I thought the thread was about stems, not headsets? My comment certainly was.

Just that somebody made the point that quill stems can be adjusted easily, and quill stems are fitted to threaded headsets.

And I replied that I'd considered (not that seriously, I have to say) changing to forks with a threaded headset and quill stem.

Cheers.

[mikeymo]

They weren’t a ‘bad’ idea as such. They’ve simply been superseded by a far better, more practical solution.

And in reference to a comment earlier- a positive angle stem becomes a negative angle stem simply by flipping it.

Actually I've thought about a quill stem. Even to the extent of wondering if I could get somebody to cut a thread on this steerer. Or changing the whole thing and getting a frame built to order, as that would probably the only way to get a threaded headset/quill stem/disc brakes combo.

In another discussion (with Brucey of course) the other advantage of quill stem bikes that was pointed out was the longevity of the headset bearings, as threaded headsets are far more immune to water ingress.

So the two advantages of quill stems are adjustability and long lived bearings.

Genuine question (to stop me spending £1000 at Bob Jackson on a new frame!) - what makes threadless headsets a "far better, more practical solution"?

They don't get stuck in the steerer like quill stems do if you don't grease them regularly, and they don't rotate when you don't want them to like quill stems do when you grease them to stop them getting stuck. The bearings on threadless headsets last as long as those on threaded headsets if they are good units in the first place (buy a Hope unit if you want something particularly good) and if you pack plenty of grease in there. I find them easier to adjust than threaded and you don't need huge thin special spanners for them. You can do all you need to do with one allen key usually. And stem choice is huge. I'd not go back to quill stems. I was delighted when my last one went for scrap. I had them for decades and hated them.

To get the best out of your stem / headset you do need to know how to adjust things, but it doesn't take too much skill to get it right. I commuted in all weathers with a threadless headset and it took about ten years before my near total neglect made it fail. My local bike shop replaced it in no time. Very often it is just the bearings that need changing. But you shouldn't have to think about that for a long time. Especially as you use mudguards.

Thanks for that info. Yes, "rotating when you don't want them to" is high up on the list of things I'd prefer not to happen.

I'm pretty much a "fair weather" cyclist, at least at the moment. So don't need to worry about the headset getting washed out. The one that's in at the moment is the standard VP something or other that came with the frame. It's got caged balls rather than a cartridge. When I do my "first year service", I'll replace the caged balls with high quality loose and repack. Doing that once a year, or something like, hopefully would mean a headset that lasts forever.

[thatsnotmyname]

So the two advantages of quill stems are adjustability and long lived bearings.

Not sure about the 'long-lived' bearings. Bearings in external cups (like in a 1" quill setup) will potentially be more at risk from the elements than bearings that are integrated/internal (such as in a 1-1/8 aheadset-type arrangement). At worst, the bearings there are certainly no better.