Are my wheels knackered or just wrong items?

[531colin]

I don't often disagree with Brucey, but the best and easiest way to get a tyre on is in my video..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUFVrl0UT4
Using toestraps (or whatever) to hold the tyre down in the rim well only applies to stiff tyres like marathon plus.
edit....you need just enough air in the tube....if you put too much air in, the tube may not fit in the tyre without pleats, which will chafe and puncture.

I don't think we are in disagreement. But for most tyres (pretty much everything except heavier puncture proof tyres with stiff beads) the toestraps either won't work very well (because the tyre is floppy) or they are not strictly necessary; once the second bead is mostly fitted and has tension in it, pinching the tyre causes the beads to settle in the rim well and they will only pop out again if the tyre is stiff (and wants badly to be another shape) and/or the beads lose their tension.

Only this morning I fitted a 'bad combination', a GP5000 to a carbon rim (which was fitted with a thick-ish rim tape in a shallow well) and it was tight enough, right enough, but it merely caused 'pink thumbs' rather than red thumbs or red face, red thumbs, blue language etc. I don't think toe straps would have been any great help with this or many other folding tyres; once a folding tyre is squashed against the rim by the toestrap, I don't see how you can be 100% certain that the bead is in the right place; to do that means moving the tyre and that usually means moving the toestrap.

FWIW I believe that the single thing that would best improve the chances of fitting many tyres would be a thing that keeps the second bead under tension, so that it doesn't pop out of the rim well. That way you could pinch the tyre to get the second bead in the well, and be reasonably sure it is going to stay there.

cheers

I already said the straps aren't really needed; beginners might find them useful, but you can do it just as well with a bit of tension.
Fitting the first bead without the tube in the tyre means that you will have to exert a bit of force on the valve to get it through the rim hole and into the tyre, in whichever order you do it; valves seem to be better stuck in than they were 40 years ago, but I still don't like lugging them about.
Having the tube in the tyre before you fit the first bead means that you can see very well if you have the tube pleated or twisted, and after a couple of goes its dead easy to judge the exact amount of air to put which makes it less likely that you will pinch the tube under the bead, but still doesn't make it difficult to get the tyre on. Give it a try; I had been putting tyres on for half a lifetime before I saw a clubmate do it this way.

[Brucey]

I have done it both ways; putting the tube in the tyre first can indeed help with some tyres, where the tyre is so stiff lifting the second bead clear of the valve can be troublesome. It can instead be a wrestling match with a floppy thing otherwise, getting the tyre onto the rim, and then getting the tube into it. However unless there is a devious trick that I don't know of, fitting the first bead without the tube in place is arguably net easier with any folding tyre; if you try and fit the tube to the tyre first you have a -much worse- wrestling match with that instead.

When the tube is 'rounded out' it can appear to be too long or too short in circumference, so regardless of when it is fitted to the tyre, some adjustment to the pressure is often required. Some tubes are sized so that tyre fitting is a breeze; others are always going to be super-tricky because the fit is marginal. I'd guess that the OP's 32mm tubes are way too wide/long for his 25mm tyres, and that creasing might be tricky to avoid.

Because of the issue with folding tyres, if you have to recommend one method it perhaps ought to be 'tyre first then tube', even though it is sometimes easier the other way. Unless I missed it we don't know if the OP's luganos are folding or not?

cheers

[531colin]

We will have to agree to disagree; the only time I find it easier to mount the first bead on the rim before I put the tube in the tyre is with a brand new folding tyre; then you have to fit the first bead just to get the damned thing round.

I hope the OP will tell us how he gets on, and indeed if his tyres are folding or rigid bead.

[pwa]

I've never really thought about this. Last week I was putting new Marathon Greenguards on wheels and I was getting the first bead on, then tube in, then second bead. But I am sure that I have also put tyres on with the tube already in. That is usually when I'm putting on a partly used tyre that was previously removed with the tube in and has been stored with the tube in. I must try it with a tyre and tube that have not previously met. The only thing I am particular about is not using levers unless all else has failed.

[Brucey]

I guess if a folding tyre, (esp a wide one?) has a fairly stiff tread and sidewall it might hold its shape well enough, once used. Although I've occasionally carried such tyres as spares sometimes (Marathon XR folding, that kind of thing spring to mind) I'd say that was the exception amongst folding tyres; normally if folk are going to shell out the extra for a folding tyre (to save a bit of weight), the rest of it tends to be built light and floppy too.

But in any event lifting a second (flexible) bead over the valve isn't a problem with pretty much any folding tyre, so it is swings and roundabouts. Of course there is no real necessity to remove a punctured tyre in its 'entireity' (geddit?) either, but sometimes it just falls off and if you are in a group the work can be shared between three; one to check the rim/rim tape, one to check the tube and one to check the tyre itself.

cheers

[Hudson1984]

we seem to be there!

no levers, new tubes went in a treat! (no toes straps either so i'm getting there haha)

Now, took it for a short (like 300m) roll down the road, no bumps and felt great!

HOWEVER!!!

on the roller, there's still a very noticeable bump. So i'm guessing the rollers are buggered or poor bearing? Or do I just need much more pressure in the tyre to stop it happening?

[thatsnotmyname]

on the roller, there's still a very noticeable bump. So i'm guessing the rollers are buggered or poor bearing? Or do I just need much more pressure in the tyre to stop it happening?

The bead might need some encouragement to seat properly - and you will notice something like that on rollers (or really smooth tarmac). Inflating the tyre to whatever its max rating is usually does the trick and you may hear some pops/clicks as the bead shifts. Just reduce back to your preferred pressure afterwards.

[pwa]

Turn the bike upside down and spin the suspect wheel. Using something in the background as reference for your eye, look for any high or low spots. If you have a low spot, examine it closely. Is the bead dipped down behind the rim edge at that part of the tyre? If so, try increasing pressure, possibly up to or a bit above the max. That should make the bead emerge. Then reduce pressure to your preferred level.

[Scunnered]

HOWEVER!!!

on the roller, there's still a very noticeable bump. So i'm guessing the rollers are buggered or poor bearing? Or do I just need much more pressure in the tyre to stop it happening?

I'd guess that is the valve hitting the roller due to insufficient pressure. You need more air

[Des49]

Does the bump coincide with the valve? Deflate the tyre and then press the valve stem down to ensure that the tyre bead is not trapped by the valve, then re-inflate fully.

[Hudson1984]

two bikes, same issue.

Sending rollers back.

Bike feels great on the road but the rollers seem screwed think i'll stick to the turbo.

[Brucey]

….Or do I just need much more pressure in the tyre to stop it happening?

probably, yes, unless...…

…. you have trapped the valve under the tyre beads; this will make a lump and the lump will be far more evident on the rollers than not.

cheers