Braze-ons for a RH front brake

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Mick F
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Braze-ons for a RH front brake

Postby Mick F » 26 Mar 2020, 3:05pm

Just refurbishing Daughter2's mixte bike.

I pulled everything apart and stripped the whole bike without a thought.
Now I'm looking at it, I see that the rear brake braze-on bosses on are the right. :shock:

It's a British Made Dawes, so why is that?
Why are the bosses on the "wrong" side?

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Mick F. Cornwall

rjb
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Re: Braze-ons for a RH front brake

Postby rjb » 26 Mar 2020, 3:58pm

Bikes of that era often had weinmann side pull brakes fitted. The operating arm being on the right for the rear brake would have needed cable stops on that side. :wink:
weinmann.jpg
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Re: Braze-ons for a RH front brake

Postby Brucey » 26 Mar 2020, 4:01pm

depending on how long your stem is and whether you are using aero levers or not, the rear brake cable can take a more gradual turn if it goes into guides on the right side of the frameset. Most British framesets were done this way at one time.

The other thing is it varies depending on which way round a side-pull brake caliper is likely to be built. For example framesets designed for most (medium quality, not the poshest versions) weinmann side pull calipers need to have the cable routing to the rear brake on the RHS, like rjb says.

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Mick F
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Re: Braze-ons for a RH front brake

Postby Mick F » 26 Mar 2020, 4:18pm

Interesting.
Thanks.

The bike had straight 'bars, but originally no doubt, it had drops.
The bike I/we have now has centre-pulls. Maybe the bike had sidepulls?

Dawes Lady Galaxy.
Dunno the date of manufacture.
BB stamping says "Davis Components" and there's a 56 and a 63 on there too.
The frame number is stamped on the RH rear dropout.

IMG_0094.jpg
IMG_0095.jpg
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Re: Braze-ons for a RH front brake

Postby Woodtourer » 26 Mar 2020, 4:33pm

Here in the US we believe that is the correct side!!
Right brake lever rear brake!

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Mick F
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Re: Braze-ons for a RH front brake

Postby Mick F » 26 Mar 2020, 4:49pm

Yes, it's all to do with driving on the "correct" side of the road. :wink:

Traditionally, British bikes had the the right brake lever to the front brake. This frame has the braze-ons for the rear brake on the right.
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Re: Braze-ons for a RH front brake

Postby rjb » 26 Mar 2020, 4:52pm

Whats the hole for in the bottom bracket casting where the left chainstay is fitted. Was that to pin the tube prior to brazing?
At the last count:- Focus Variado, Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

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Mick F
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Re: Braze-ons for a RH front brake

Postby Mick F » 26 Mar 2020, 5:03pm

Breather holes.
A few all over, including the forks.

When they braze the frame, the holes allow the gasses and heat to escape.
My Mercian has zero breather holes anywhere as they were all brazed up after assembly. More expensive!
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Re: Braze-ons for a RH front brake

Postby pwa » 26 Mar 2020, 5:10pm

Mick F wrote:Yes, it's all to do with driving on the "correct" side of the road. :wink:

Traditionally, British bikes had the the right brake lever to the front brake. This frame has the braze-ons for the rear brake on the right.

Having those brazings on the right would be odd on a new bike regardless of which lever does what. A cable run on the right does not line up well with dual pivot brakes, side pull brakes or disc brakes. They all have arms on the left of the bike. A cable run down the right suggests centre pull brakes were intended.

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Re: Braze-ons for a RH front brake

Postby Mick F » 26 Mar 2020, 5:14pm

pwa wrote: A cable run down the right suggests centre pull brakes were intended.
Ah!

So the centre-pulls are original maybe.
The fittings would suggest this to be the case, but LH braze-ons would be better to come from the LH side of the handlebars.
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Re: Braze-ons for a RH front brake

Postby pwa » 26 Mar 2020, 5:25pm

Mick F wrote:
pwa wrote: A cable run down the right suggests centre pull brakes were intended.
Ah!

So the centre-pulls are original maybe.
The fittings would suggest this to be the case, but LH braze-ons would be better to come from the LH side of the handlebars.

Actually, rjb's pic makes me wonder. It shows sidepull calipers with arms on the right of the bike. Not on the left for the rear as you see today. But in the 70s and early 80s I remember preferring centre pulls because they did not tend to pull to one side, giving brake rub, the way side pulls tended to. Centre pulls were common on bikes not set up for racing.

I remember a friend having a similar 531 mixte frame a bit like that one around 1987. Possibly a Dawes. But I can't remember the brakes.

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Re: Braze-ons for a RH front brake

Postby Brucey » 26 Mar 2020, 5:55pm

this photo shows how the bike was almost certainly originally meant to be;

Image

with centre pull brakes, and a pulley fitting on the seat bolt. The brakes are not a million miles from how yours were. With non-aero brake levers the cable routing is very good.

The braze-ons are the correct side for using weinmann side-pull calipers, in which case the final braze on (on the back of the seat tube) is redundant; because you can swap the barrel adjuster and pinch bolt positions in a weinmann side pull caliper, you can turn a normal caliper into a bottom pull version. This is neat but not ideal, because the final housing run is still a water trap.

The photo below shows a later lady galaxy with a weinmann side pull so configured

Image

this has another variation, in which the housing stop is built into the pulley unit

Image

FWIW the side pull brakes are (IMHO) nothing like as good as the centre pulls.

cheers
Last edited by Brucey on 26 Mar 2020, 6:29pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Braze-ons for a RH front brake

Postby foxyrider » 26 Mar 2020, 6:01pm

Mick F wrote:
pwa wrote: A cable run down the right suggests centre pull brakes were intended.
Ah!

So the centre-pulls are original maybe.
The fittings would suggest this to be the case, but LH braze-ons would be better to come from the LH side of the handlebars.


i beg to differ. Its less common with brake cables but many new bikes of the last 30 years have crossed the gear cables to the'wrong' side of the bike to give a better cable run then crossing under/through the d/t. I recall having a couple of frames where the brake cable was a 'wrong un' as it was better for carrying the bike without getting yourself caught on the stops/cable. :D
Convention? what's that then?
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Re: Braze-ons for a RH front brake

Postby Brucey » 26 Mar 2020, 6:07pm

I agree with the above; routing the left brake lever cable to the RH side of the top tube is no problem at all, and has benefits for shouldering the bike. In fact it can make for an easier cable run even with aero brake levers, especially with a short stem; it can be difficult to make enough slack for the steering to go full lock both ways otherwise.

As I mentioned earlier they were all like that for years and years.

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Re: Braze-ons for a RH front brake

Postby Mick F » 26 Mar 2020, 6:38pm

Brucey wrote:this photo shows how the bike was almost certainly originally meant to be ...............
That photo shows how it's meant to be?

RH brake lever to the rear brake?
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