odd wheel build

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mig
Posts: 2154
Joined: 19 Oct 2011, 9:39pm

odd wheel build

Postby mig » 26 Mar 2020, 5:09pm

i thought i'd practice my (limited) wheel building skills in the next few days. i know i have a pair of track hubs 'in the spares box' and have a rim in the shed. during the afternoon i've been searching out components that i hope fit.

the weird combination is ;

36H ambrosio track front hub
36H mavic ceramic T217 rim

i get these to be 288 length spokes? which i have!! sapim race. 40 thereof.

so, for practice, i'm building a track-touring front wheel :wink:

i doubt that the pro wheelsmiths amongst the regular posters here will be quaking in their boots but you never know :wink:

wish me luck :D

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fausto99
Posts: 487
Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 10:06am

Re: odd wheel build

Postby fausto99 » 26 Mar 2020, 5:16pm

Good luck.

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531colin
Posts: 12625
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: odd wheel build

Postby 531colin » 26 Mar 2020, 5:30pm

They're all odd wheels unless they are a pair.
Good luck! All you need is a clear head.

mig
Posts: 2154
Joined: 19 Oct 2011, 9:39pm

Re: odd wheel build

Postby mig » 26 Mar 2020, 5:36pm

531colin wrote:They're all odd wheels unless they are a pair.
Good luck! All you need is a clear head.


:D
that's me knackered from the off then :!:

mig
Posts: 2154
Joined: 19 Oct 2011, 9:39pm

Re: odd wheel build

Postby mig » 26 Mar 2020, 5:40pm

nb. i'm not intending to use all 40 spokes in the one wheel.

daft but not that daft

Brucey
Posts: 37282
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: odd wheel build

Postby Brucey » 26 Mar 2020, 5:41pm

have fun!

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

richardfm
Posts: 213
Joined: 15 Apr 2018, 3:17pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Re: odd wheel build

Postby richardfm » 26 Mar 2020, 7:12pm

Good luck, post some photos of the build and the finished wheels.
I'm going try my first wheel build when the spokes arrive. It's an old wheel of my son's that had a cheap, worn out hub. I dismantled the wheel, purchased a new hub and then set about carefully calculating the required spoke length and realised that the spokes I had carefully saved were the wrong length for the new hubs. I'm just hoping that I don't discover a reason to need a new rim, or it will be the wheel equivalent of Trigger's broom.

Of course once it is built I will need a bike for it. I won a frame on ebay today and have another spare wheel...just need to keep an eye on ebay for all the other components.

mig
Posts: 2154
Joined: 19 Oct 2011, 9:39pm

Re: odd wheel build

Postby mig » 26 Mar 2020, 7:45pm

richardfm wrote:Good luck, post some photos of the build and the finished wheels.
I'm going try my first wheel build when the spokes arrive. It's an old wheel of my son's that had a cheap, worn out hub. I dismantled the wheel, purchased a new hub and then set about carefully calculating the required spoke length and realised that the spokes I had carefully saved were the wrong length for the new hubs. I'm just hoping that I don't discover a reason to need a new rim, or it will be the wheel equivalent of Trigger's broom.

Of course once it is built I will need a bike for it. I won a frame on ebay today and have another spare wheel...just need to keep an eye on ebay for all the other components.


re. your wheel. the hub and rim have the same number of holes i take it?

re. spoke keys. have just found mine - the last part of the puzzle. it's a basic one - an hexagonal metal 'column' type with a cross bar. it tends to rub my fingers after a while. what are the differences in the various keys on the market? the sizes only differ fractionally for different nipples i assume.

which keys do the experience forumites use? do you have any trick kit with which to string up and initially wind on the nipples? or just, like me, a little mini screwdriver?

peetee
Posts: 1799
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Cornwall

Re: odd wheel build

Postby peetee » 26 Mar 2020, 8:25pm

Keep a cool head and all will be well.
Riding off on your first wheel build is a very satisfying experience. :D
Current status report:
Back on two wheels in deepest Pastyland and loving every minute. Mission: to enjoy big, bad hills again.

fastpedaller
Posts: 2321
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: odd wheel build

Postby fastpedaller » 26 Mar 2020, 8:27pm

mig wrote:
re. spoke keys. have just found mine - the last part of the puzzle. it's a basic one - an hexagonal metal 'column' type with a cross bar. it tends to rub my fingers after a while. what are the differences in the various keys on the market? the sizes only differ fractionally for different nipples i assume.

which keys do the experience forumites use? do you have any trick kit with which to string up and initially wind on the nipples? or just, like me, a little mini screwdriver?


Yours sound like a cyclo one - which I happen to favour. :)

Mike Sales
Posts: 4404
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: odd wheel build

Postby Mike Sales » 26 Mar 2020, 8:33pm

fastpedaller wrote:
mig wrote:
re. spoke keys. have just found mine - the last part of the puzzle. it's a basic one - an hexagonal metal 'column' type with a cross bar. it tends to rub my fingers after a while. what are the differences in the various keys on the market? the sizes only differ fractionally for different nipples i assume.

which keys do the experience forumites use? do you have any trick kit with which to string up and initially wind on the nipples? or just, like me, a little mini screwdriver?


Yours sound like a cyclo one - which I happen to favour. :)


I don't like the Cyclo, I much prefer the Park pattern.
For initial, uniform screwing on of nipples I like the tool which resembles a cranked screwdriver with a pip in the centre of the blade. The spoke pushes the tool out of the slot as it is screwed, and does it at a uniform height. This makes a good start on truing.

mig
Posts: 2154
Joined: 19 Oct 2011, 9:39pm

Re: odd wheel build

Postby mig » 26 Mar 2020, 8:40pm

peetee wrote:Keep a cool head and all will be well.
Riding off on your first wheel build is a very satisfying experience. :D


thanks. will do. i've built quite a few in the past but not for a loooooong time.

i've dug out my gerd schraner book (which i like,) spokes, hub and nipples all ready. little bit of light oil, some GT85, spoke key. the rim and hub have been polished. will probably do the spokes once it's built up.

quite busy tomorrow but i believe it's forecast colder on saturday so will take my time lacing this up and trying for 'right first time.' i seem to remember that schraner's method does leave a few of the last spokes quite difficult to thread but i've managed before.

i'm quite looking forward to it.

richardfm
Posts: 213
Joined: 15 Apr 2018, 3:17pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Re: odd wheel build

Postby richardfm » 26 Mar 2020, 9:34pm

mig wrote:
richardfm wrote:Good luck, post some photos of the build and the finished wheels.
I'm going try my first wheel build when the spokes arrive. It's an old wheel of my son's that had a cheap, worn out hub. I dismantled the wheel, purchased a new hub and then set about carefully calculating the required spoke length and realised that the spokes I had carefully saved were the wrong length for the new hubs. I'm just hoping that I don't discover a reason to need a new rim, or it will be the wheel equivalent of Trigger's broom.

Of course once it is built I will need a bike for it. I won a frame on ebay today and have another spare wheel...just need to keep an eye on ebay for all the other components.


re. your wheel. the hub and rim have the same number of holes i take it?

re. spoke keys. have just found mine - the last part of the puzzle. it's a basic one - an hexagonal metal 'column' type with a cross bar. it tends to rub my fingers after a while. what are the differences in the various keys on the market? the sizes only differ fractionally for different nipples i assume.

which keys do the experience forumites use? do you have any trick kit with which to string up and initially wind on the nipples? or just, like me, a little mini screwdriver?


Yes, I counted the spokes before ordering the hub, so it all matches up.
I have one of these https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tools/spoke ... us-spokes/

TooManyBikes
Posts: 50
Joined: 27 Dec 2017, 11:05am
Location: Notts/Derbys border.

Re: odd wheel build

Postby TooManyBikes » 28 Mar 2020, 6:04pm

fastpedaller wrote:
mig wrote:
re. spoke keys. have just found mine - the last part of the puzzle. it's a basic one - an hexagonal metal 'column' type with a cross bar. it tends to rub my fingers after a while. what are the differences in the various keys on the market? the sizes only differ fractionally for different nipples i assume.

which keys do the experience forumites use? do you have any trick kit with which to string up and initially wind on the nipples? or just, like me, a little mini screwdriver?


I've only built 5 wheels from start to finish in my exploration of it,and a fair bit of re truing of others, but found it really rewarding after a few mistakes to start with. the 'Spokey' type keys are very good and are nice to use. I also made a modified flat bladed screwdriver for the initial tightening of the nipples - basically filed, so it had a 3mm long, 1.5mm diam. pin in the middle of the flat blade end, brilliant for consistently getting all the nipples to the same place.well worth making or buying one.
My name is Michael, And I have too many bikes.

Brucey
Posts: 37282
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: odd wheel build

Postby Brucey » 28 Mar 2020, 6:37pm

these are some DIY nipple drivers that you can make from an old spoke

Image

from this thread https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=117817

since then I have made other versions with different offsets and even handles so that they are easier to use, but I won't spend more than a few minutes looking for my 'best one' before I just make another, they are that simple.

This sort of tool allows the nipples to be set *exactly* uniformly and there is no fiddling required to get the nipple started in a (deep) double-walled rim either; it is all done in one operation.

Using a tool like this with a straight rim, a concentric hub and perfectly uniform length spokes, you can largely build, stress-relieve and tension a wheel without it going anywhere near a jig. When it goes in the jig all that is needed is to fine-tune the truing, which may not require more than 1/2 turn on any given nipple.

IME unless the spokes are so close to one another you can't turn one, nothing beats a spokey for ease of build; it is the lightest weight, easiest to fit to the nipple, most secure and most comfortable to use of the many different spoke keys I have used. I've been building wheels for about forty years (on and off) and I've used a spokey for most of the builds in the last 35 years. When I can't find the right spokey or I can't use one, I really miss it; nearly everything else isn't just a bit worse, it is pretty rotten by comparison.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~