Dura Ace SL-7700 DT shifters to Sora RD/FD - will work?

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mikeymo
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Re: Dura Ace SL-7700 DT shifters to Sora RD/FD - will work?

Postby mikeymo » 12 Sep 2020, 12:59am

To settle this, I've bought a pair of Dura Ace SL-7700 9 SPEED downtube shifters, and the right hand, rear derailleur shifter can be switched from indexed to friction shifting.

I think it's unlikely that Shimano would bother changing the design of such a simple component, so can only think that those people, including retailers, who claim they are "indexed only" are referring to the 10 speed.

keyboardmonkey
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Re: Dura Ace SL-7700 DT shifters to Sora RD/FD - will work?

Postby keyboardmonkey » 12 Sep 2020, 6:40am

Oof. It’s been exhausting reading this thread whilst drinking my morning coffee. I’m glad there is a happy ending :D

I hope you put SJS right!

mikeymo
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Re: Dura Ace SL-7700 DT shifters to Sora RD/FD - will work?

Postby mikeymo » 12 Sep 2020, 10:01am

keyboardmonkey wrote:Oof. It’s been exhausting reading this thread whilst drinking my morning coffee. I’m glad there is a happy ending :D

I hope you put SJS right!


Yes, I even made a video to send them!!

Sorry to wear you out with the OCD thread;-) I didn't really post it because anybody here might be interested, though it's good to bring a thread to a conclusion, don't you think? But for the benefit of people doing general internet searches, which often end up returning results from UKC. So ignoring the snarky tone of your reply, it didn't do me any good to post the result, but it might help somebody else.

mikeymo
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Re: Dura Ace SL-7700 DT shifters to Sora RD/FD - will work?

Postby mikeymo » 12 Sep 2020, 10:19am

slowster wrote:I think the version of the levers with the facility to switch the right hand lever from indexed to friction might now be difficult to buy new. According to a reply on its website which SJS gave to a customer in 2016 asking about this, all of the shifters they were then receiving from the distributor were indexed only with no friction option on the RH lever.


Well, the ones I just received, from SJS, can switch from indexed to friction (RD), 4 years after that reply. Maybe I got old stock. Or maybe SJS are in error, and are confusing 9 and 10 speed.

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Vantage
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Re: Dura Ace SL-7700 DT shifters to Sora RD/FD - will work?

Postby Vantage » 12 Sep 2020, 10:28am

Having seen this thread I checked my SIS only rear Dura Ace DT 9 speed lever for the switchable index/friction D ring.
It worked!
Bought mine from Spa and even their description listed it as index only. There's no mention of the friction mode in the tech doc for that shifter either.
I think someone at Shimano screwed up. I doubt retailers have the time to test every component and accessory to see if they comply to the manufacturers description.
Bill


“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.

mikeymo
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Re: Dura Ace SL-7700 DT shifters to Sora RD/FD - will work?

Postby mikeymo » 12 Sep 2020, 10:42am

Vantage wrote:Having seen this thread I checked my SIS only rear Dura Ace DT 9 speed lever for the switchable index/friction D ring.
It worked!
Bought mine from Spa and even their description listed it as index only. There's no mention of the friction mode in the tech doc for that shifter either.
I think someone at Shimano screwed up. I doubt retailers have the time to test every component and accessory to see if they comply to the manufacturers description.


Yes. I think that could be what happened. It would seem a little odd for there to be two versions of the 9 speed shifter, unless the friction/index switching option was causing problems.

I agree, I don't expect a shop to install every component and test it, though it would be nice to see if they actually acknowledge the correction. One of the features of "experts" and people with "years of experience" is that they can sometimes gain a little arrogance. After all, if you know 98% about some subject you might think you know 100%. So it's worth treating confident assertions with a little caution. I bought these because more and more retailers were reporting them "unavailable", so thought I better snap up a pair, whether they could do friction or not.

By the way, did you find turning the D-ring to friction shifting a little stiff?

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Vantage
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Re: Dura Ace SL-7700 DT shifters to Sora RD/FD - will work?

Postby Vantage » 12 Sep 2020, 10:50am

Very stiff indeed. I had to use a screwdriver for leverage.

I bought mine because the SunRace 9spd shifters I had previously were absolute rubbish and caused endless shifting woes.
Bill


“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.

De Sisti
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Re: Dura Ace SL-7700 DT shifters to Sora RD/FD - will work?

Postby De Sisti » 12 Sep 2020, 10:59am

mikeymo wrote:One of the features of "experts" and people with "years of experience" is that they can sometimes gain a little arrogance. After all, if you know 98% about some subject you might think you know 100%. So it's worth treating confident assertions with a little caution.

I agree. My use of Campag 10s ergo levers, Campag 9 or 10s rear derailleur with Shimano 9s hub cassette, resulting with perfect shifting has been met with less than unequivical acceptance.

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Re: Dura Ace SL-7700 DT shifters to Sora RD/FD - will work?

Postby mikeymo » 12 Sep 2020, 11:00am

Vantage wrote:Very stiff indeed. I had to use a screwdriver for leverage.


Thanks, I've not installed them incorrectly then. I wonder if that stiffness is the reason some people are reporting that the option to switch to friction isn't available. It's not mentioned in the documentation, various retailers with authority (e.g. SJS) say they can't be switched to friction, most people probably aren't interested in friction shifting, 9 speed is not the "hot" set up at the moment, etc. etc. So most people just won't bother. A curious mind might wonder why there's a superfluous D ring on the RH shifter, when it doesn't fulfil the same purpose as the left hand shifter, where it actually attaches it to the boss. But then the curious mind might just think - "oh well, I suppose they did it so it matches". Most people, even if they think - "I wonder if this turns" would think no, if they tried. And it's so stiff they'd worry it was going to break.

It takes somebody like yours truly to ferret around, like a dog with with a bone, to uncover the truth!! See I've done the cycling community a huge service. This will undoubtedly help at least one other person, maybe. Or maybe nobody.

pwa
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Re: Dura Ace SL-7700 DT shifters to Sora RD/FD - will work?

Postby pwa » 12 Sep 2020, 11:45am

I seem to remember the bar end version also being stiff to change over to friction when I did it out of curiosity, but it did convert okay and it went back to indexed okay afterwards.

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Re: Dura Ace SL-7700 DT shifters to Sora RD/FD - will work?

Postby Brucey » 12 Sep 2020, 5:13pm

FWIW Shimano only list one EV techdoc for SL-7700 shifters, and that clearly shows the mode change D-ring on the RH shifter.

In some older SunTour levers the index mode cannot be changed without first loosening the tension screw. However with the shimano levers it specifically warns you not to turn the D-ring before the lever is assembled on the frame:

https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/storage/pdf/en/si/6J50B/SI-6J50B-000-ENG.pdf

It is normal for the D-ring to be stiff to turn; I have a feeling that it is easier when the lever is in some positions than others.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mikeymo
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Re: Dura Ace SL-7700 DT shifters to Sora RD/FD - will work?

Postby mikeymo » 12 Sep 2020, 8:04pm

Brucey wrote:FWIW Shimano only list one EV techdoc for SL-7700 shifters, and that clearly shows the mode change D-ring on the RH shifter.

In some older SunTour levers the index mode cannot be changed without first loosening the tension screw. However with the shimano levers it specifically warns you not to turn the D-ring before the lever is assembled on the frame:

https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/storage/pdf/en/si/6J50B/SI-6J50B-000-ENG.pdf

It is normal for the D-ring to be stiff to turn; I have a feeling that it is easier when the lever is in some positions than others.

cheers


Yup, that's the manual I got with my shifters. Like you say, there's the picture of the D-ring and the instruction not to turn it. But no guidance as to what it actually does. I think the ambiguity has led to the assumption that friction shifting not being an option becoming stated as fact.

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Re: Dura Ace SL-7700 DT shifters to Sora RD/FD - will work?

Postby mikeymo » 13 Sep 2020, 2:31pm

Brucey wrote:Shimano list only one techdoc for SL-7700

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-SL-7700-1663.pdf


There's also this:

https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/storage/pdf/en/si/6J50B/SI-6J50B-000-ENG.pdf

Which combines 7800 (10 speed) and 7700 (9 speed). That shared document may be the source of the confusion.