Tandem Tyre Choice in 26 x 2.0 ?

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zenitb
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Tandem Tyre Choice in 26 x 2.0 ?

Postby zenitb » 13 May 2020, 12:07am

I realise there has been previous threads on this but some are quite old so was looking for up to date advice. Our Viking tandem currently has 26 x 2.25 Marathon Extremes which have been really successful for mixed on-off road riding and super safe/grippy in use.

HOWEVER ..outside of holidays we are using the thing almost exclusively on tarmac (esp. in lockdown) and pre-lockdown have been cycling in a group with road bikes - so I was thinking of moving to less buzzy, slicker, road only tyres .. in the hope of a quicker ride. I would still want a big air cushion, and crucially good/safe grip in wet and dry.

I was considering the Marathon Greenguard, Marathon Plus, and Supreme HS469 .. all in 26 x 2.0 but only because they seemed the obvious options.

Any other/better options ??? .. advice/experience/opinions gladly received ....
Image Attachments
Marathon Greenguard.JPG
Marathon Plus.JPG
Marathon Supreme.JPG

Mike_Ayling
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Re: Tandem Tyre Choice in 26 x 2.0 ?

Postby Mike_Ayling » 13 May 2020, 1:11am

I have had a set of Supremes 36 X 622 on my Thorn Mercury half bike and like their performance. So much so that I have purchased a set in 26 X 1.75 for our tandem for its next tyre chhange.

Mike

Brucey
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Re: Tandem Tyre Choice in 26 x 2.0 ?

Postby Brucey » 13 May 2020, 1:21am

tyres have different load ratings and you have not said how much your machine and crew weigh.

In the Schwalbe catalogue it says for 26" x 2" size (max load per tyre)

Marathon Plus 118kg
Marathon Greenguard 118kg
Marathon Supreme 120kg
Marathon Mondial (folding) 130kg
Marathon Mondial (wired) 115kg
Big Apple 125kg
Kojak 130kg
Marathon GT Tour 118kg
Marathon GT 365 118kg

this is a smaller difference than I remember within Schwalbe's range. Some other manufacturers don't quote load ratings for their tyres at all. NB please check this but it is normal for the maximum load to be permitted only at the maximum allowable pressure of the tyre. At lower pressures than the maximum permitted you must derate the tyre and I have assumed that a linear interpolation ought to be appropriate.

If so then comparing (say) the Mondial folding (it will accept 130kg at 70psi so at 35psi 65kg is possible) with the Mondial wired which will accept 115kg at 70psi then at 35psi 57.5kg is possible. So you need about another 5psi more in the wired tyre if you want the same load on it.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

reohn2
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Re: Tandem Tyre Choice in 26 x 2.0 ?

Postby reohn2 » 13 May 2020, 9:22am

If you're sticking with Schwalbe IMO Supremes are perfect for your intended use.
Don't forget Schwalbe weight limits are per tyre,so 120kgs max = 240kgs
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Brucey
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Re: Tandem Tyre Choice in 26 x 2.0 ?

Postby Brucey » 13 May 2020, 10:02am

120kg x 2 = 240kgs is only permissible if

a) the weight is evenly distributed front and rear and
b) the tyres are inflated to their maximum allowable pressure.

you don't need much in the way of rear weight bias and lower pressures to lower the permissible load significantly.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

hamster
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Re: Tandem Tyre Choice in 26 x 2.0 ?

Postby hamster » 13 May 2020, 10:19am

From my tandem I found the Greenguards to be excellent in 1.75".
I thought I'd have more of the same with 2" Marathon Supremes. They always seemed draggy at lower pressures and needed to be very hard to get any benefit of lower rolling resistance.

reohn2
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Re: Tandem Tyre Choice in 26 x 2.0 ?

Postby reohn2 » 13 May 2020, 10:27am

Brucey wrote:120kg x 2 = 240kgs is only permissible if

a) the weight is evenly distributed front and rear and
b) the tyres are inflated to their maximum allowable pressure.

you don't need much in the way of rear weight bias and lower pressures to lower the permissible load significantly.

cheers

The weight limit of 120kg is per tyre,tandems are usually either 50/50 or slightly front biased weight distribution.
When packing miles in riding tandems regularly myself and MrR2 weighed in at 80kg and 60kgs respectively(perhaps an average crew weight?),bike and day load was 23 to 25 kgs giving an all up weight of 165kgs,even with a front weigh load of 100kgs it's 20kgs under Schwalbe's permitted max.
Take a heavier crew with(the same differential between capt' and stoker and bike)190kgs would only approach max permitted,and if the crews weights were equal with a 50/50 weight distribution the 190kg would be 95kg per wheel.
I know there are braking forces involved a well as climbing altering weight distribution but they aren't constant.

FWIW we used to ride 700x32mm tyres at 80 to 85psi(Marathon H308 and latterly RibMos with some miles on Gators) on the tandems anything over that just became uncomfortable without any speed gain.
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Brucey
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Re: Tandem Tyre Choice in 26 x 2.0 ?

Postby Brucey » 13 May 2020, 10:39am

as I mentioned tyre manufacturers usually specify that the max load is only permissible when the tyres are also fully inflated to the maximum allowable pressure. I suspect that a majority of tandem crews unknowingly violate the tyre manufacturers specifications.

No wonder tandem tyre problems are so commonplace.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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squeaker
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Re: Tandem Tyre Choice in 26 x 2.0 ?

Postby squeaker » 13 May 2020, 10:41am

hamster wrote:From my tandem I found the Greenguards to be excellent in 1.75".
I thought I'd have more of the same with 2" Marathon Supremes. They always seemed draggy at lower pressures and needed to be very hard to get any benefit of lower rolling resistance.
IME the original Supremes with 'Ceramic Guard' were draggy, later constructions seem better, but YMMV :)
"42"

reohn2
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Re: Tandem Tyre Choice in 26 x 2.0 ?

Postby reohn2 » 13 May 2020, 10:42am

Brucey wrote:as I mentioned tyre manufacturers usually specify that the max load is only permissible when the tyres are also fully inflated to the maximum allowable pressure. I suspect that a majority of tandem crews unknowingly violate the tyre manufacturers specifications.

No wonder tandem tyre problems are so commonplace.

cheers

I strongly suspect you're right and is linked directly to over inflation.
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reohn2
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Re: Tandem Tyre Choice in 26 x 2.0 ?

Postby reohn2 » 13 May 2020, 10:46am

squeaker wrote:
hamster wrote:From my tandem I found the Greenguards to be excellent in 1.75".
I thought I'd have more of the same with 2" Marathon Supremes. They always seemed draggy at lower pressures and needed to be very hard to get any benefit of lower rolling resistance.
IME the original Supremes with 'Ceramic Guard' were draggy, later constructions seem better, but YMMV :)

I was puzzled by Hamster's post,but I've only ridden the latest version(solo 700x50mm(47mm actual width and height)) which are IMO a quick and comfy tyre even at low TP's of 20f 40r over 25/45 and they're all over the place on hardpack and gravel paths.
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pwa
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Re: Tandem Tyre Choice in 26 x 2.0 ?

Postby pwa » 13 May 2020, 11:18am

My impression of Marathon Supremes is that because they have a relatively thin sidewall they are not the sort of tyre to run at low pressures. They rely on highish pressures to hold their shape. Panaracer Paselas are the same. But that sort of tyre gives better than average compliance at higher pressures, so pumping them up a bit more doesn't mean a harsh ride in the way it would with a thicker sidewall tyre. Paselas are good tandem tyres, by the way.

zenitb
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Re: Tandem Tyre Choice in 26 x 2.0 ?

Postby zenitb » 13 May 2020, 12:14pm

reohn2 wrote:
squeaker wrote:
hamster wrote:From my tandem I found the Greenguards to be excellent in 1.75".
I thought I'd have more of the same with 2" Marathon Supremes. They always seemed draggy at lower pressures and needed to be very hard to get any benefit of lower rolling resistance.
IME the original Supremes with 'Ceramic Guard' were draggy, later constructions seem better, but YMMV :)

I was puzzled by Hamster's post,but I've only ridden the latest version(solo 700x50mm(47mm actual width and height)) which are IMO a quick and comfy tyre even at low TP's of 20f 40r over 25/45 and they're all over the place on hardpack and gravel paths.

Many thanks for taking the time to respond to this hamster and reohn. It’s sounding like supremes to me :-)

zenitb
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Re: Tandem Tyre Choice in 26 x 2.0 ?

Postby zenitb » 13 May 2020, 12:15pm

pwa wrote:My impression of Marathon Supremes is that because they have a relatively thin sidewall they are not the sort of tyre to run at low pressures. They rely on highish pressures to hold their shape. Panaracer Paselas are the same. But that sort of tyre gives better than average compliance at higher pressures, so pumping them up a bit more doesn't mean a harsh ride in the way it would with a thicker sidewall tyre. Paselas are good tandem tyres, by the way.
. Useful info.. many thanks pwa

zenitb
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Re: Tandem Tyre Choice in 26 x 2.0 ?

Postby zenitb » 13 May 2020, 12:18pm

Brucey wrote:tyres have different load ratings and you have not said how much your machine and crew weigh.

In the Schwalbe catalogue it says for 26" x 2" size (max load per tyre)

Marathon Plus 118kg
Marathon Greenguard 118kg
Marathon Supreme 120kg
Marathon Mondial (folding) 130kg
Marathon Mondial (wired) 115kg
Big Apple 125kg
Kojak 130kg
Marathon GT Tour 118kg
Marathon GT 365 118kg

this is a smaller difference than I remember within Schwalbe's range. Some other manufacturers don't quote load ratings for their tyres at all. NB please check this but it is normal for the maximum load to be permitted only at the maximum allowable pressure of the tyre. At lower pressures than the maximum permitted you must derate the tyre and I have assumed that a linear interpolation ought to be appropriate.

If so then comparing (say) the Mondial folding (it will accept 130kg at 70psi so at 35psi 65kg is possible) with the Mondial wired which will accept 115kg at 70psi then at 35psi 57.5kg is possible. So you need about another 5psi more in the wired tyre if you want the same load on it.

cheers

Very useful table Brucey..many thanks for posting this...we are well within these limits normally but are planning hostelling trips (eventually!) so this is useful...and I have taken on board everyone’s comments on weight distribution as well...Appreciated..
Last edited by zenitb on 13 May 2020, 12:32pm, edited 1 time in total.