Selle SMP saddles

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axel_knutt
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Re: Selle SMP saddles

Postby axel_knutt » 23 May 2020, 10:11pm

I bought a TRK on the strength of people crowing about it, but it's no good. The hole in it is big enough to fix the numbness, but it's too wide, and bites into the backs of my thighs at the crease where they join the bum cheeks. It's too soft too, and spreads the load too far beyond my sit bones. I started some work on making my own custom made saddle in February, but it came to an abrupt halt when I became too unwell to cycle. Again.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

Cowsham
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Re: Selle SMP saddles

Postby Cowsham » 24 May 2020, 1:19am

axel_knutt wrote:I bought a TRK on the strength of people crowing about it, but it's no good. The hole in it is big enough to fix the numbness, but it's too wide, and bites into the backs of my thighs at the crease where they join the bum cheeks.


Told you cutouts are no use -- they snag and hurt.

Hope you get better soon.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Selle SMP saddles

Postby The utility cyclist » 24 May 2020, 3:06am

I tried the SMP hybrid on my Raleigh titanium and it's far too wide for me sit bone wise (I've got a Velo Ti in 131mm), the cut out isn't the issue for me nor is it on any saddle I've tried with it, I actually like the design but I'd need one of the narrower ones. However all the saddles fitted to my varying machines are more than fine for the jobs they do though like most gone through a fair few to find the right ones.

if people find saddles that works really well and/or on differing machines then that's brilliant for them.

Re non handed, used to be able to ride for a couple of miles BITD on long sunny days when the roads seemed smoother and the roads less traffic'd, can still steer reasonably well, nothing acute and never would, so moving out for parked vehicles/potholes and non acute roundabouts no problem but rarely bother these days. If you can't, you can't, if you don't want to, don't, if you can and you're safe then do it, doesn't matter either way.

cycle tramp
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Re: Selle SMP saddles

Postby cycle tramp » 24 May 2020, 8:07am

Dear Friedrich Nietzsche, I couldn't give a damn that I lied too you. Your philosophies gave credence to a dark time in history and are still giving those with similar thoughts sucker.... if I could exponge your thoughts from the annuals of human philosophy I would do so without a moment's hesitation. You are not worth my truth!

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531colin
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Re: Selle SMP saddles

Postby 531colin » 24 May 2020, 9:48am

Trigger wrote:
531colin wrote:
Trigger wrote:
I assumed your picture was stationary, in which case yes I can do that. But like I said if you meant can I ride like that then the answer is no/don't know because I'm not willing to crash into a ditch trying it.


So, when is there too much weight on your hands?


I'd say if I ride in the hoods for a long period without moving my hands that is probably the worst maybe, drops seem ok.

I think I already alluded to the reason why, I don't know if you missed it, it was because I've had to tilt the saddle down to prevent the nose boring a hole in my soft bits, if I level it off then the hands etc. aren't too bad, but then obviously I get the severe numbness due to excess perineum pressure.

Hence the whole reason posting asking about SMP saddles...


It wasn't clear to me, otherwise I wouldn't have asked (twice)

So in summary;
Nose up...numb bits/hands OK
Nose down...bits OK/numb hands.

Its possible that a different saddle will be an improvement, but I wouldn't start there.
If there is too much weight on your hands, your saddle needs to go back. ....so that you can balance as in my photo. (Maybe a shorter stem as well, when you move the saddle back)
Numb bits are (as you know) due to pressure where you don't want it. So, I would never tilt the saddle nose up to take weight off my hands, because that will put the weight somewhere you really don't want it. Also if the reach to the bars is too long, that alone can drag you forwards so you sit on the narrow nose of the saddle, giving pressure on the soft bits in the middle instead of sitting on the bum bones.

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531colin
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Re: Selle SMP saddles

Postby 531colin » 24 May 2020, 11:08am

fastpedaller wrote:
531colin wrote:
fastpedaller wrote:….
1) On the Winter bike the nose of the saddle (although 'level') was in such aa position that I was having to push myself back regularly in order to be on my sit bones. This 'sliding forwards' seemed to be causing the numbness issue.......

Well, it seems fairly straightforward....sliding forwards takes your bum bones off the wide bit of the saddle at the back, so you are putting weight on the soft bits in the middle, resulting in compression of the nerves and "numb willy syndrome".
If you tilt the saddle "nose up" to stop sliding back, you are likely to get the same pressure and the same NWS.
The real question is why do you slide forwards at high cadence?
Is your saddle in the right position front to back as indicated by the balance test?
Simply moving the saddle forward might be preferable to sliding forward and sitting on the saddle nose.
Saddle too high/reach to bars too long?

I think I will try the saddle a little further forward - I've never been able to get my head around the KOPS notion anyway, so I've never really used it as a guide. I'm pretty sure the saddles not too high. some have said in the past that my saddle's too low (although this is from people who's saddles are too high IMHO) - I find the 'Italian' method of crank in line with seatube and heal touching pedaiwith leg outstretched works for me. The bumpy country roads down here are a menace to the nether regions, which doesn't help!

Saddle height is about pedalling efficiency...you can set it by "rule of thumb" (heel on pedal, etc) or more "scientifically" following Steve Hogg https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/02/seat-height-how-hard-can-it-be/ or theres a short bit in my bike fit piece.
Saddle fore and aft is about balance (weight on your hands) and you can set that by rule of thumb (KOPS) or scientifically by balance point; in my piece or Steve Hogg https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/05/seat-set-back-for-road-bikes/. I don't see much difference between the two "rules of thumb".... neither are particularly "logical", both seem to work for some of the people some of the time.
I think most of the people I see out on the road wearing the "uniform" (drop bars, helmet, lycra) have their saddle too high, but maybe I'm old fashioned.....I draw some comfort from the fact that Steve Hogg seems to think the same as us. I'm a roughstuffer, I set the saddle so that I can pedal comfortably with no weight on the saddle, but still in contact.

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Trigger
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Re: Selle SMP saddles

Postby Trigger » 24 May 2020, 11:19am

531colin wrote:
fastpedaller wrote:
531colin wrote:Well, it seems fairly straightforward....sliding forwards takes your bum bones off the wide bit of the saddle at the back, so you are putting weight on the soft bits in the middle, resulting in compression of the nerves and "numb willy syndrome".
If you tilt the saddle "nose up" to stop sliding back, you are likely to get the same pressure and the same NWS.
The real question is why do you slide forwards at high cadence?
Is your saddle in the right position front to back as indicated by the balance test?
Simply moving the saddle forward might be preferable to sliding forward and sitting on the saddle nose.
Saddle too high/reach to bars too long?

I think I will try the saddle a little further forward - I've never been able to get my head around the KOPS notion anyway, so I've never really used it as a guide. I'm pretty sure the saddles not too high. some have said in the past that my saddle's too low (although this is from people who's saddles are too high IMHO) - I find the 'Italian' method of crank in line with seatube and heal touching pedaiwith leg outstretched works for me. The bumpy country roads down here are a menace to the nether regions, which doesn't help!

Saddle height is about pedalling efficiency...you can set it by "rule of thumb" (heel on pedal, etc) or more "scientifically" following Steve Hogg https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/02/seat-height-how-hard-can-it-be/ or theres a short bit in my bike fit piece.
Saddle fore and aft is about balance (weight on your hands) and you can set that by rule of thumb (KOPS) or scientifically by balance point; in my piece or Steve Hogg https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/05/seat-set-back-for-road-bikes/. I don't see much difference between the two "rules of thumb".... neither are particularly "logical", both seem to work for some of the people some of the time.
I think most of the people I see out on the road wearing the "uniform" (drop bars, helmet, lycra) have their saddle too high, but maybe I'm old fashioned.....I draw some comfort from the fact that Steve Hogg seems to think the same as us. I'm a roughstuffer, I set the saddle so that I can pedal comfortably with no weight on the saddle, but still in contact.


Just to be clear about that picture you posted, is that balance test supposed to be done whilst riding or sat stationary as per you pic?

I don't need to 'nose up' the saddle to get numbness, just having it level will cause it.

Samuel D
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Re: Selle SMP saddles

Postby Samuel D » 24 May 2020, 11:47am

I don’t believe it’s plausible that tilting the saddle up reduces weight on the hands by loading up the perineum.

Consider the distance between sit-bones and perineum as a proportion of the distance between sit-bones and handlebar. It is tiny. Let’s say 100 mm versus 700 mm for the sake of argument. Therefore to reduce the weight on the hands by just 1 kg, the perineum would have to bear an additional 7 kg, or an additional 14 kg for a 2 kg reduction. Not happening.

Rather, I believe the tilted-up saddle causes you to slide back, thereby reducing weight on the hands according to the principles explained by Colin many times on this forum. Coincidentally, it puts a small (but for many uncomfortable) load on the perineum.

I think you should solve the hand discomfort by getting the saddle back. You might need a new seatpost with more effective setback (I say effective because it is the location of the front of the clamp that limits the rearward saddle travel, not the location of the clamp centre as often given in specifications). Then solve the independent perineum problem with a saddle that works in the level orientation or accept that some saddles, for some people, may need to be tilted down slightly.
Last edited by Samuel D on 24 May 2020, 12:30pm, edited 1 time in total.

Freddie
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Re: Selle SMP saddles

Postby Freddie » 24 May 2020, 12:21pm

A picture is worth a thousand words. Perhaps a picture of your bicycle from the side on, on level ground, would tell us something words cannot?

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Trigger
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Re: Selle SMP saddles

Postby Trigger » 24 May 2020, 12:30pm

Freddie wrote:A picture is worth a thousand words. Perhaps a picture of your bicycle from the side on, on level ground, would tell us something words cannot?


There is one from another thread, it's not great because I can't get far enough back to take it properly.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=137365&p=1479141#p1479141

Saddle in this pic was level, I have since tilted it down slightly and made some other slight adjustments but it's not a million miles away from this pic, I'm about to alter some other bits to suit my needs as well so it will change again.

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531colin
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Re: Selle SMP saddles

Postby 531colin » 24 May 2020, 12:35pm

Samuel D wrote:I don’t believe it’s plausible that tilting the saddle up reduces weight on the hands by loading up the perineum.
……... I believe the tilted-up saddle causes you to slide back, …..

I think you are probably right.

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531colin
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Re: Selle SMP saddles

Postby 531colin » 24 May 2020, 12:49pm

Trigger wrote:...….Just to be clear about that picture you posted, is that balance test supposed to be done whilst riding or sat stationary as per you pic?

I don't need to 'nose up' the saddle to get numbness, just having it level will cause it.


The balance is similar whether you are moving or stationary. Its good if you have access to a turbo trainer (as in my picture), because you can feel what difference it makes if you pedal hard. Its awkward having somebody to hold the bike upright, and obviously you can't pedal. If you read my bike fit piece, I describe how much weight I have on my hands when riding along, pedalling with varying force.

If a level saddle gives you numb willy syndrome I think its either too narrow or you are sitting forward on the narrow bit.

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531colin
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Re: Selle SMP saddles

Postby 531colin » 24 May 2020, 12:52pm

Trigger wrote:
Freddie wrote:A picture is worth a thousand words. Perhaps a picture of your bicycle from the side on, on level ground, would tell us something words cannot?


There is one from another thread, it's not great because I can't get far enough back to take it properly.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=137365&p=1479141#p1479141

Saddle in this pic was level, I have since tilted it down slightly and made some other slight adjustments but it's not a million miles away from this pic, I'm about to alter some other bits to suit my needs as well so it will change again.


That particular picture seems to tell me that the wheels aren't round. Is it my screen?

Freddie
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Re: Selle SMP saddles

Postby Freddie » 24 May 2020, 1:16pm

531colin wrote:That particular picture seems to tell me that the wheels aren't round. Is it my screen?
I think the website is making the picture smaller and distorting it in the process. If you click the picture it should enlarge and wheels looks normal then.
Trigger wrote:Saddle in this pic was level, I have since tilted it down slightly and made some other slight adjustments but it's not a million miles away from this pic, I'm about to alter some other bits to suit my needs as well so it will change again.
I think we'd need to see how it is now. Outside, against a wall or something, on level ground (current picture has the front wheel higher than the rear).

Cowsham
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Re: Selle SMP saddles

Postby Cowsham » 24 May 2020, 9:30pm

I can see straight away what's wrong. -- that saddle is too curved laterally. ie the top of the saddle has quite a curved surface from side to side thus spreading in between the sit bones so instead of your sit bones sitting a top the saddle they are sitting either side of that curve. Get a saddle like a selle justek with a flatter top so your sit bones will be below your John Thompson thus reducing the pressure on it. Took me a while to figure that out myself.