Hallett's Howlers

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mattsccm
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Re: Hallett's Howlers

Postby mattsccm » 6 Jun 2020, 11:08am

Not defending him but there is an element of not wanting to cater for idiots and the ignorant. I know in this day and age we have to but that doesn't make it right. I do cut my chains on some bikes to risk the big big being to tight. It changes gear better . Thats up to me though and I know the risks which is why I don't do it on all bikes.
I guess the point is that if you have to ask you don't know and thus the over cautious approach is needed.
Have we finally separated the two arguments and agreed to differ then?
Part of me agrees with the dislike of the tech stuff on the website. Is that surprising though when the organisation no longer is a true cycling organisation and is more a campaign group?

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531colin
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Re: Hallett's Howlers

Postby 531colin » 6 Jun 2020, 6:14pm

thatsnotmyname wrote:
531colin wrote:Apart from duff technical advice, the man < . . is an ad hoc frame and bike builder working purely on a private commission basis>.
How can that not be a conflict of interest with being CTC technical officer?


Perhaps you could explain why you think it IS a conflict?


I don't think its a conflict of interest, its a textbook definition. Here is the first one that came up on a search..https://www.bing.com/search?q=conflict+of+interest+definition&form=EDGTCT&qs=LS&cvid=439471e3606a40af96722f5fde970e97&refig=feaaa2d894c24b8abcd23092aac3ed6c&cc=GB&setlang=en-US&elv=AY3%21uAY7tbNNZGZ2yiGNjfMogvywbtvWq1awmKbvU1j8bwdX0k3wY21Oxbw%21Oyzk9LuKWsNYocbh8x5dGZGkruek0y3x8U9SfMHBfAh0gMGH&plvar=0&PC=LCTS
Note that it says "in a position to derive benefit from ..."
Would you say that having your name thrust in front of thousands(?) of cyclists six times a year is good for business, or bad for business?

Let me give you a glimpse of somewhere I used to live.
It was called England and the language everybody understood was English.
Some years ago, before CJ was made redundant by the CTC, there was a conversation in Spa Cycles which went like this...
"It would be good to get somebody well-known to design some bikes for us."
"CJ is the obvious choice for touring bikes and our customer demographic, but obviously we can't approach him as he works for the CTC."

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531colin
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Re: Hallett's Howlers

Postby 531colin » 6 Jun 2020, 6:17pm

thatsnotmyname wrote:
Jdsk wrote:
thatsnotmyname wrote:
Perhaps you could explain why you think it IS a conflict?

I've no idea if there's any conflict of interest or not. But transparency is essential, and I didn't know this.

Jonathan


One of his bikes was featured in the CUK magazine. It had his name on it and everything. I think he was even standing next to it. How much more transparency do you need?


Was that part of his work as technical editor, or paid for advertising?

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531colin
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Re: Hallett's Howlers

Postby 531colin » 6 Jun 2020, 6:22pm

thatsnotmyname wrote:
Carlton green wrote:With your post here above the thread started to drift in an unhelpful direction again. As far as I can tell you somehow resurrected comments from Colin 531 so that you could then challenge them again in what’s seemingly a trivial and distracting argument about a relatively small point. If the way that I read things is correct then IMHO the Mod’s would be perfectly correct to place you on the naughty step. I think that it would be good if you were able to just let your issue drop so that others members aren’t distracted from discussing more constructive aspects of the original post, any chance of that please?


My only issues are accuracy and balance. Suggesting that someone has a vested interest in influencing the advice they give is hardly a 'small point'. And as long as people here persist with that line, I will try to balance it.


where is this, please?

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531colin
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Re: Hallett's Howlers

Postby 531colin » 6 Jun 2020, 6:34pm

MartinC wrote:……. Having a role as an editor in an independent charity that involves advising on a topic where you have an outside commercial interest is a conflict of interest in itself....

Quite.
I will wait patiently to see if you are vilified for writing this, as I have been vilified for writing the exact same thing.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Hallett's Howlers

Postby Cyril Haearn » 6 Jun 2020, 6:36pm

No idea whether there is a conflict of interest, but there could be one
That is enough
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JakobW
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Re: Hallett's Howlers

Postby JakobW » 6 Jun 2020, 9:18pm

Pretty sure it used to be noted in the mag that Hallett was a custom framebuilder, but perhaps that was only on articles that he wrote as opposed to in the queries bio bits - I don't have any older back issues to hand. FWIW he doesn't mention any CUK affiliation on his website, so he's not seeking to profit from an association there. However, I also think the potential for a conflict of interest is being overstated here - if he were a distributor/importer for the components he reviews that would be one thing, but as a low-volume custom builder you're selling what, 20 bikes a year? Of which the majority are presumably specced by the clients.

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CJ
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Re: Hallett's Howlers

Postby CJ » 6 Jun 2020, 11:12pm

rotavator wrote:So is someone going to contact Dan Joyce, the editor of Cycle, to point out the bad and potentially dangerous advice? Then it will be interesting to see if any apology, correction or change in technical advisor is forthcoming.

Done it already. For that, of course, is where I addressed this in the first place, with the primary aim (communicated in my coverring email) that Dan Joyce might forward the appropriate sections to the members concerned, before they came to any harm or spent money unwisely. Of course I'd like to see the whole enchilada in print, but know only too well that Cycle magazine doesn't have space to print a letter of that length and that some other people have a say in what gets printed. So rather than waste a good rant, I thought I'd share it here. Okay?
Chris Juden
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David9694
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Re: Hallett's Howlers

Postby David9694 » 7 Jun 2020, 8:27am

pwa wrote:Personally, I think Hallett is, like many good folk I know, a bike geek, totally obsessed with bikes, not money. So I don't doubt that any advice he offers is the honest product of his musings. And there can be few if any "experts" able to write these articles without having some other sideline, probably bike related. What is needed is simply an open and clear statement about any relevant interests, if there are any, with each article.


So under his next tech feature, they just need to say something to the effect that RH is the sole prop. of Hallett Handbuilt Cycles.

TIFTFY

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Paulatic
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Re: Hallett's Howlers

Postby Paulatic » 7 Jun 2020, 8:33am

JakobW wrote:Pretty sure it used to be noted in the mag that Hallett was a custom framebuilder, but perhaps that was only on articles that he wrote as opposed to in the queries bio bits - I don't have any older back issues to hand. FWIW he doesn't mention any CUK affiliation on his website, so he's not seeking to profit from an association there. However, I also think the potential for a conflict of interest is being overstated here - if he were a distributor/importer for the components he reviews that would be one thing, but as a low-volume custom builder you're selling what, 20 bikes a year? Of which the majority are presumably specced by the clients.

You don’t need old back copies :D

https://www.cyclinguk.org/site-search?keyword=Hallett
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iandusud
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Re: Hallett's Howlers

Postby iandusud » 7 Jun 2020, 10:05am

Just like to add my 2d worth. I think the advice to run a chain too short to run big - big is indeed a howler, and I have on more than one occasion raised an eyebrow at some of the technical advice given in Cycle. However I do not think that justifies some of the personal comments or accusations of undeclared interests levelled at Mr Hallett. Any declaration of interest should be made to the editorial staff of Cycle and I have no doubt that they are fully aware of Mr Halletts business interests. If he makes errors in his advice by all means point them out, in particular to the editor and let them issue any corrections they may feel necessary or indeed find a replacement for Mr Hallett if they feel it appropriate. However he is employed to do a job to the best of his ability and I don't doubt that he does that. If he's not up to the job that is a matter for editorial staff. I would also like to add that I miss Chris Juden's input and have always appreciated his technical approach.

thirdcrank
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Re: Hallett's Howlers

Postby thirdcrank » 7 Jun 2020, 1:11pm

In the year 2020, what purpose is served by printing replies to selected technical queries in a mag which appears every two months?

rotavator
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Re: Hallett's Howlers

Postby rotavator » 7 Jun 2020, 1:29pm

thirdcrank wrote:In the year 2020, what purpose is served by printing replies to selected technical queries in a mag which appears every two months?


Well in the past, the answers to such questions could prove useful to readers facing similar issues but nowadays you can get much quicker answers by using forums like this or YouTube for example.

I would question the need for a printed magazine at all[*]. I find so little in it worth reading now, it barely keeps me occupied for 30 minutes before it is ready for recycling. The focus seems to be mainly on campaigning and relevant articles could reach a wider audience if posted on the website. However, members who lack internet access would miss out.

[*] incidentally the same applies to printed magazines issued by other organisations that I belong to

Edit: I wonder if the income from adverts more than covers the cost of producing Cycle mag? If so, that would justify keeping it and keeping this site free of adverts!
Last edited by rotavator on 7 Jun 2020, 1:47pm, edited 1 time in total.

David9694
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Re: Hallett's Howlers

Postby David9694 » 7 Jun 2020, 1:46pm

thirdcrank wrote:In the year 2020, what purpose is served by printing replies to selected technical queries in a mag which appears every two months?


You do have to wonder what the CUK post bag is like - but there is in 2020 a section of the population not on line. It doesn’t seem a very quick way of getting information. My take on the letters page “my husband is in his eighty fourth year and I in my eighty-third and we are Sometimes having trouble Completing some of the higher passes in the Dolomites on our Mercians these day, could you suggest...”

I enjoyed The build your own piece - I though I was a master of experimentation and fettling - seems I was wrong!

Eric the Red
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Re: Hallett's Howlers

Postby Eric the Red » 7 Jun 2020, 2:51pm

thirdcrank wrote:In the year 2020, what purpose is served by printing replies to selected technical queries in a mag which appears every two months?

With CJ, you could email in a query and you would get a reply almost immediately. Now you get replies once every 2 months in the magazine to a few selected questions. Gone from a great service to a crap one. :(