Double brake lever , cable pull

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resus1uk
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Joined: 12 Mar 2007, 9:28am

Double brake lever , cable pull

Postby resus1uk » 15 Jun 2020, 11:24am

Changing upright trike to double lever on the left for one handed operation. OK with cable pull for the vee brakes, but is the cable pull OK for SA hub?
Also going back to indexed down tube shifters. Easy to reach on a trike without wobbling, combined brake and shifters not easy to keep adjusted. 8 gear ,twin wheel drive.

Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Double brake lever , cable pull

Postby Jdsk » 15 Jun 2020, 11:30am

resus1uk wrote:Changing upright trike to double lever on the left for one handed operation. OK with cable pull for the vee brakes, but is the cable pull OK for SA hub?

I'm not sure what you're intending... do you want three rim brakes on one lever and the hub brake on another?

Jonathan

tatanab
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Re: Double brake lever , cable pull

Postby tatanab » 15 Jun 2020, 11:50am

Brakes need to be independent, i.e no single point of failure. So a twin brake lever with nothing else would be a bit suspect.

if you want all the braking operated by one hand, with different brake actions, a way to do it may be something I did 40 years ago, although this was with drops which might or might not be what you are using. I had the rim brake operated by the usual brake lever, and a hub brake worked from a Weinmann straight bar lever tucked underneath the normal drop lever at a slight angle. I could use the rim brake from any hand position and the hub brake from the drops. I could also use both brakes from the drops with two fingers on each lever. I can easily imagine that this would also work on straight bars with one lever tucked under the other (perhaps a modern short two finger lever) and carefully positioned to allow two fingers on each. On the trike (50 years experience) I very very very seldom (yes, it is that seldom) use two brakes together, one is perfectly adequate selected by which hand is in the best position.

You could ask this on the upright only tricycle forum for other opinions on options https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/on3wheels/

As for keeping Ergo/STI gear/ brake setups adjusted, I don't see problems especially with 8 speed. Using 8 speed I have indexed downtube on one trike and Ergo on another.

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Tigerbiten
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Re: Double brake lever , cable pull

Postby Tigerbiten » 15 Jun 2020, 12:31pm

Another option for two independent brakes off one hand is to use a friction lever to turn the drum brake into a drag brake.
That's basically how my bent tadpole trike set up.
Both fronts of a single lever for normal use and the back is a parking/drag brake off a friction lever for occasional use.

Luck ........ :D

resus1uk
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Joined: 12 Mar 2007, 9:28am

Re: Double brake lever , cable pull

Postby resus1uk » 15 Jun 2020, 12:42pm

Thanks, the trike has both brakes on the front wheel, nothing on the back, normal for trikes. The double lever also has a parking lock. Rear derailleur is Shimano so should index fine with the downtube shifters. STI's were temperamental on this trike. They are going onto a standard bike.
If the pull for the front hub is incompatible, the fall back is a lever on the right. The parking brake is helpful now I am at the age when getting on/off is harder than riding.

9494arnold
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Re: Double brake lever , cable pull

Postby 9494arnold » 15 Jun 2020, 12:46pm

I can confirm , as a regular Trike rider and a retired Police Officer, 2 brakes off 1 lever is NOT independent.
So in law it would be classed as a single brake.
Plus you are splitting the effort of your hand over the 2 systems, there is quite a bit of mechanical advantage being lost doing this.
I would agree with previous poster, an index gear lever on one of the Brakes allows you to actuate the brake and leave it in 'drag' mode until you are going as slow as you would like to.
Not sure what sort of set up you have, 2 rime brakes (or a Rim and a Hub) on the front wheel are acceptable, provided they have separate levers.
You may well be able to introduce a second brake on the fork ?
I have never felt the need on my trike, but did have a 'drag' brake on my old Tandem.

9494arnold
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Re: Double brake lever , cable pull

Postby 9494arnold » 15 Jun 2020, 12:48pm

I think you posted at same time as me.
Hub/disc brake on the front wheel ?
One of my trikes has a Drum on the front (Alloy Sturmey Archer, which is going soon , nice 700 c wheel …it's Aesthetics on a historic machine) )

yakdiver
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Re: Double brake lever , cable pull

Postby yakdiver » 15 Jun 2020, 1:14pm

the two-brake rule only applies to bikes where the saddle is 635mm or more above the ground (when the bike is upright, the saddle is raised to the fullest extent compatible with safety and the tyres are fully inflated). A child’s bike where the saddle is lower than 635mm only needs one braking system (which can be on either wheel). (PCCUR r. 7(1)(a) and (b), (2))
Alias Numbnuts

tatanab
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Re: Double brake lever , cable pull

Postby tatanab » 15 Jun 2020, 1:19pm

It just happens that I was answering a question on our FB page and put up a picture of a Cyclon trike. I notice that it has 3 brakes, 2 on one lever and the third on a handlebar control gear lever. Pretty much as suggested above although your configuration would be different.
cyclon-trike.jpg

resus1uk
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Re: Double brake lever , cable pull

Postby resus1uk » 15 Jun 2020, 2:02pm

Thanks, going back to two separate levers. There's a spare in the bit box. I can still grip enough with the right hand if the left brake fails. Other more disabled riders do use a double

resus1uk
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Joined: 12 Mar 2007, 9:28am

Re: Double brake lever , cable pull

Postby resus1uk » 15 Jun 2020, 2:11pm

Going back to two separate levers. Works on the other trike. I can still grip enough to use the right lever.

9494arnold
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Re: Double brake lever , cable pull

Postby 9494arnold » 15 Jun 2020, 2:35pm

Yakdiver is quite correct about Brakes and Saddle Height.
It USED to be wheel size, but Moulton et al put paid to that one, a Moulton with No Brakes was legal under the old legislation. :shock:

Looks like the Cyclon in the picture has been set up for someone who has limited or no movement in the left arm (or No Left Arm)

I did my cycle instructor training with a guy who only had one arm , a Combination of Twist Grip and lever gear levers on the bars,
a 2 Lever Brake levers, one a short BMX style so without much dexterity you could grip and pull both together but they were still independent, plus an indexed gear lever linked to one of the brakes, in use it's a bit like a car handbrake , you can apply it then let it go, it carries on braking under the grip of the indexing until you pull it off.

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Chris Jeggo
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Re: Double brake lever , cable pull

Postby Chris Jeggo » 15 Jun 2020, 3:31pm

tatanab wrote:It just happens that I was answering a question on our FB page and put up a picture of a Cyclon trike. I notice that it has 3 brakes, 2 on one lever and the third on a handlebar control gear lever. Pretty much as suggested above although your configuration would be different.
cyclon-trike.jpg
cyclon-trike.jpg (48.16 KiB) Viewed 173 times

Does that disc brake retard only the right-hand wheel of the Cyclon trike? If so, then applied hard it would slew the trike to the right.

tatanab
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Re: Double brake lever , cable pull

Postby tatanab » 15 Jun 2020, 3:58pm

^^^ Yes, but that is not as bad as it sounds since it would pull steering up the conventional UK camber. A single offside rear brake was not unusual in the 1940s/50s for machines more at the utility end of the market, but a drum brake would not be potentially as effective as the disc. Note also that the disc is operated by the bar end control, so could not be applied hard, intended as a parking brake for a disabled rider. Here it is also done to keep the price down I expect. The camber issue - this is why, if single wheel drive, UK trikes drive the left wheel in order to counteract conventional camber.

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Tilley
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Re: Double brake lever , cable pull

Postby Tilley » 15 Jun 2020, 6:22pm

I have 2 recumbent trikes both of which had a single lever operating the brakes on the 2 front wheels. The ice trike has SA drum brakes the KMX had mechanical disc brakes. Both trikes have a rear disc fitted but this is only a park brake. If a rear brake is used on a tadpole trike it will force the rear wheel to drift and can result in overturning the trike. I would guess that the same is true of an upright trike.