boris wrote:I kept the upper race and the ball bearings of a headset from my 1979 Peugeot PY11 . The frame broke properly 2 years ago so I put any usable bits in my box and opened the Headset to see how it could have survived 40years of rough riding. The bearings and bearing surfaces were immaculate . The original grease still all there.High quality steel properly made. It looked as though another 40years would not have troubled it. I think most manufacturers now would regard such longevity as a manufacturing fault. By the way , the headset looked like a Stronglight steel 1inch.
I also have a Raleigh Banana 1980s basic quality 'racer' which I and two sons have hammered on and off-road and again the headset is fine. Not light, but apparently unbreakable.
Was the Peugeot a threaded headset? We had a long discussion a while ago about the difference between threaded and threadless headset bearings, and the ways in which water does or doesn't get into the bearing, due to the design. The conclusion was, I think, that the construction of threaded headsets is that they are far more immune to water ingress.
Last edited by mikeymo on 17 Jun 2020, 8:12pm, edited 3 times in total.
mikeymo wrote:Reviews/forum comments (esp. MTB forums) about "top end" headsets often say things like:
"I've fitted a Chris Hope headset 5 years ago and it's still buttery smooth, it'll probably still be fine in 10 years, in which time you'll have replaced your cheap one 3 times".
Or something like that.
But surely with cartridge bearing headsets, it's not the cups that wear out. It's the cartridge bearings, isn't it? Aren't the cups just dumb pieces of circular metal, that the cartridge bearings sit in?
So these £150 headsets made out of unobtanium, is all the quality not in the (easily replaceable) bearings? Or is it also the seals and design.
My experience of modern headsets is confined to the nice and relatively expensive Hope ones, and the affordable FSA Orbit ones. The FSA units are quite nice and give lots of good service, and the bearings can be replaced if you need it. But the Hope headsets are a lot better sealed. And I believe the actual bearings are more expensive stainless steel. Does the extra quality justify paying nearly 3 times as much as I would pay for an FSA unit? I don't yet know because I've not needed new bearings on my Hope headset yet. I reckon it needs to last twice as long as an FSA one to make financial sense, rather than 3 times, because the hassle of changing bearings has a value. But if the Hope unit is too expensive, it isn't by very much. And it looks nice.
I agree with your comments re Hope: their headsets (and bottom brackets) are lovely.
Raleigh Randonneur 708 (Magura hydraulic brakes); Blue Raleigh Randonneur 708 dynamo; Pearson Compass 631 tourer; Dawes One Down 631 dynamo winter bike;Raleigh Travelogue 708 tourer dynamo; Kona Sutra; Trek 920 disc Sram Force.
I have quite a lot of old headsets still in service and I almost never have trouble with any of them. However they haven't all been treated the same. I have 2 Record 1" ahead headsets which are both 20 years old. One is on a dry weather road bike, the other on a bike with mudguards. No issues at all. I also have a King headset, bought second hand 15 years ago on a mountain bike which has seen a lot of wet weather abuse over that time. It is fine. Most of my other bikes have King headsets which have had a fairly easy life, so as expected, no issues. My 9 month old gravel bike has a very cheap headset which sends rust stains down the frame when it gets wet. It works well enough now, but clearly will die shortly. I expect I'll replace it with a King. So my philosophy with headsets is to use King when it's going to have a hard life, but not worry too much otherwise. Almost all my King headsets have been second hand or bought cheaply in the US.
The closest I've encountered to "last forever" headsets are the Stronglight needle roller headsets. I have a couple that I installed on bikes in the early 1980s, and the bearings in them still appear to be in perfect condition.
I dislike Chris King headsets for the reason that you need to return the headset to Chris King or their local distributors to replace the bearings if they get worn or damaged. This costs the same as a complete new Hope headset, or a handful of FSAs....
AndyA wrote:I dislike Chris King headsets for the reason that you need to return the headset to Chris King or their local distributors to replace the bearings if they get worn or damaged.
Really? I'll cross them off the list then. That really is a whole new level of idiocy. As Ghengis Khan once said - "sod that for a lark".
There's a series of Crane Creek with a lifetime guarantee, around the same price as a CK. I nearly always fit FSA Orbit if it's an 1 1/8th, they've always proved reliable and it's convenient to have the same spares available for multiple bikes. The odd occasion where the bearings have become rough, it's always been that water has got in, I can't remember ever needing to replace one where that wasn't the case. I'm not adverse to the idea of paying more for something better, even if that better takes some years to become a benefit, but the FSA's seem to be as good as I need. If I'm lax enough to let it suffer water damage, there's probably other areas also suffering neglect.
AndyA wrote:I dislike Chris King headsets for the reason that you need to return the headset to Chris King
I think they also need a non standard tool to fit? Though I can't remember where or when I heard that.
And I wonder what is so good about CK that makes it worth paying getting on for double what you'd pay for a Hope headset. Given that the Hope is made in the UK and is made of very nice things and, to my eyes, looks better.
PH wrote:There's a series of Crane Creek with a lifetime guarantee, around the same price as a CK. I nearly always fit FSA Orbit if it's an 1 1/8th, they've always proved reliable and it's convenient to have the same spares available for multiple bikes. The odd occasion where the bearings have become rough, it's always been that water has got in, I can't remember ever needing to replace one where that wasn't the case. I'm not adverse to the idea of paying more for something better, even if that better takes some years to become a benefit, but the FSA's seem to be as good as I need. If I'm lax enough to let it suffer water damage, there's probably other areas also suffering neglect.
I have commuted on Orbit headsets and that is a tough test. Riding in all weathers, through the winter with all the salt on the roads, and with extreme neglect. And even then I have had ten years before water ingress has made the bearings give up, something that could have been put off with a bit of greasing once in a while.
Thanks folks. And especially thanks for the warning about Chris King headsets.
I get the impression that threaded headsets are capable of very great longevity, with simple maintenance. Especially a good one. Which makes sense, given the way water runs down tubes. But as the only way I could get a threaded headset would be a custom made frame, I'll just stick with my loose ball headset, packet of Grade 10 balls, and giant tub of Comma CV grease, for now.
If I ever need another one I'll go in at the not dirt cheap but not silly priced bling range. Though Hope make one that matches my frame colour, so....
