Going cageless- how much ball space ?

[hoogerbooger]

What sort of proportion of the race should be left as gap to ensure free movement ?

My headset had 20 balls caged. 24 will fit but not 25. 24 appear to still have some movement ( by the sound of it)

But I see suggestions of filling then taking 2 to 3 out ? Seem a bit of an excessive 'gap to me ??

Advice?

[Samuel D]

Any gap is enough, but the trick is being certain the gap remains after assembly. That and the hope of packing in more grease is why some people leave more space.

Removing two or three balls is excessive by my reckoning too.

[Tigerbiten]

I've always worked with the general rule "it's a full race minus one ball".
But if the race has space for more than 1/2 additional ball then you can use as many as will fit.

Luck .............

[Brucey]

a gap of one ball is more than enough.

The consequences of 'one too few' in a headset are not usually severe. However the consequences of 'one too many' are.

Thus if you add one more ball and the bearing no longer feels like a bearing when preloaded, you know you had the number right beforehand.

cheers

[hoogerbooger]

I fibbed. Can get 25 in with just over half a ball space.

[Brucey]

that looks about right to me. However the balls will move slightly when the bearing is assembled, which is why it is prudent to test the (overly preloaded) bearing for absence of binding.

cheers

[Samuel D]

I vote for more grease still. May as well. What stuff is it?

Are you going cageless because of a problem or to hope to stave off a problem? Just being nosy.

[Brucey]

at a guess it looks like finish line Teflon grease to me...?

FWIW you can put more grease in than that, but after (say) a period of use that is about the amount you might expect to see; the rest tends to get pushed out of the bearing.

cheers

[mikeymo]

I thought I read somewhere that there should be an odd number of balls. Or did I dream it?

On the basis that 20 balls might separate into 2 x 10 and leave a gap front and back, and encourage the race to wear unevenly. Whereas an odd number can't group, well, not evenly.

Though I daresay, to quote Albert Einstein - "that's a load of old cobblers".

[hoogerbooger]

Going cageless as headset is indexed...hoping to get some more life from it.

Blimey, Brucie knows his greases! Probably had one eye closed and a peg on his nose just for a challenge.

[mikeymo]

Going cageless as headset is indexed...hoping to get some more life from it.

Blimey, Brucie knows his greases! Probably had one eye closed and a peg on his nose just for a challenge.

I think Brucey's recommended grease for loose ball headsets is:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Comma-CV500G-Constant-Velocity-Lith-Moly/dp/B003BPUSDU

I've had a pot of it and a packet of Grade 10 bearings sat on the dining room table for a few weeks waiting for me to "get round to it"

See this thread for more in depth discussion of loose bearing headset grease:

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=125064&p=1277374&hilit=which+wears+first+bearings+race#p1277374

[hoogerbooger]

Noted. Lacking corrosion inhibitors........Will have to see how well trained my seals are.

[Pebble]

Going cageless as headset is indexed...hoping to get some more life from it.

Blimey, Brucie knows his greases! Probably had one eye closed and a peg on his nose just for a challenge.

what a good idea, has it worked ?

I might try the same with mine, steering is awful. It was varying in between cattle grids, from loose and twitchy to the next cattle grid where it would be indexing. I did dismantle to discover a broken cage, but after replacing with a new cage, it is either too loose or it indexes - no happy medium.

May try cageless and see if that works?

[mikeymo]

Noted. Lacking corrosion inhibitors........Will have to see how well trained my seals are.

I know nothing about formulation of greases. So don't know how to tell if it is "lacking corrosion inhibitors". I'll have to take your word for it. The data sheet is here:

https://www.commaoil.com/passenger-vehicles/products/view/212

It says "Good corrosion protection – Rust inhibited to protect bearing surfaces."

I think Comma have a couple of similarly named products.