Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
tim-b
Posts: 1367
Joined: 10 Oct 2009, 8:20am

Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby tim-b » 28 Jun 2020, 12:14pm

Hi
I keep seeing men of a certain age riding carbon frames with 3cm of spacers under a ‘flipped‘ stem. Aside from looking awful (to my eyes at least) I can’t imagine the handling is as the designer intended

I think that I must be missing something here; manufacturers supply bikes with a cut steerer. If you want to be a bit more upright then a bit of flippage is the only way to go, unless you want an adjustable stem
Call me old-fashioned but if you want to push the CG forward and get low then move your hands onto another part of the handlebars :D
Regards
tim-b
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~

User avatar
Oceanic
Posts: 95
Joined: 24 Sep 2010, 7:21pm

Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby Oceanic » 28 Jun 2020, 2:29pm

tim-b wrote:Hi
I think that I must be missing something here; manufacturers supply bikes with a cut steerer. If you want to be a bit more upright then a bit of flippage is the only way to go, unless you want an adjustable stem


Hi,

Flipping the stem isn’t the only way to go, a rider could alternatively buy a bike with a longer head tube and geometry designed for a more upright position.

tim-b
Posts: 1367
Joined: 10 Oct 2009, 8:20am

Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby tim-b » 28 Jun 2020, 5:00pm

Hi
Flipping the stem isn’t the only way to go...snip

It is if you've already bought the bike
...a rider could alternatively buy a bike with a longer head tube and geometry designed for a more upright position

If they know what geometry they want, but that only comes with experience. A longer head tube doesn't necessarily give a more upright position, headset type and frame angles need to be taken into account as well
Regards
tim-b
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~

hamish
Posts: 421
Joined: 5 Mar 2008, 11:29pm

Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby hamish » 28 Jun 2020, 11:32pm

whoof wrote:The Kona Libra and Dolan GXC are gravel bikes the Giant Defy an endurance bike and therefore not surprising that they have higher front ends than out and out racers.

As to what bikes people should be riding it's obviously the same as me, anyone riding something else is clearly doing it wrong, there surely can't be another view!


The Libre is a gravel bike. But it could be used as a road bike for much of the riding that these "men of a certain age" do.

But it isn't the gravel bike tag that gives it a high front end. Loads (most?) of gravel bikes have a low stack height and a many have a steep seat angle and look really uncomfortable to me. The Libre is something of an exception really. The Rove has a similarly high front end but a steeper SA.

User avatar
Oceanic
Posts: 95
Joined: 24 Sep 2010, 7:21pm

Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby Oceanic » 29 Jun 2020, 8:00am

hamish wrote:The Libre is a gravel bike. But it could be used as a road bike for much of the riding that these "men of a certain age" do.


Somebody in the group I was riding in yesterday (on the road) was riding a gravel bike with road tyres (Cube Nuroad). My wife went out in a different group and somebody turned up with a new bike, another gravel bike (Trek Checkpoint).

Since starting this thread I’ve discovered the geometry geeks website. It’s really good for answering questions like the one I posed in the opening post of this thread.

djnotts
Posts: 1586
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby djnotts » 29 Jun 2020, 8:13am

One must assume that the market for carbon race bike replicas is overwhelmingly the under 40s and that the mainstream mass suppliers design what will sell in greatest volume. Finding a high front end is thus difficult. Just like flat bar versions.
Reckon I saw a couple of dozen roadies yesterday - all were on head down carbon race reps. None were racing and I doubt that many ever will.
If one wants more upright but on a nice light bike then simply accept spacers and riser stems.

De Sisti
Posts: 903
Joined: 17 Jun 2007, 6:03pm

Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby De Sisti » 29 Jun 2020, 8:23am

Oceanic wrote:I keep seeing men of a certain age riding carbon frames with 3cm of spacers under a ‘flipped‘ stem. Aside from looking awful (to my eyes at least)

If you keep seeing them, why don't you stop them and pass on your advice and experience? :lol:

User avatar
Oceanic
Posts: 95
Joined: 24 Sep 2010, 7:21pm

Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby Oceanic » 29 Jun 2020, 11:10am

TrevA wrote:The Trek Domane has a high front end.


I've been searching on the Geometry Geeks website and have come up with a list of carbon road bikes that have an unusually high stack measurement...

Trek Domane (Stack 561, Reach 371)
Simplon Pavo (Stack 571, Reach 377)
Specialized Roubaix (Stack 569, Reach 371)

No flipped stem required.

Marcus Aurelius
Posts: 1507
Joined: 1 Feb 2018, 10:20am

Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 29 Jun 2020, 3:23pm

Manufacturers will go where the money is. If that’s bikes for M.A.M.I.L.S with high stacks, then that’s what they’ll produce. If there was no demand, there’d be no supply. My ‘best’ bike was supplied with an integrated stem and bars, I couldn’t flip it, even if I wanted to. I could use a separate bar and stem, but that would really ruin it. I’ve got a couple of small spacers under the stem, but that’s because riding with a slammed stem would make it unnecessarily uncomfortable, and that would make it not a nice place to be, and that would mean I wouldn’t ride it much, which would negate the point of buying it.

User avatar
TrevA
Posts: 2436
Joined: 1 Jun 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby TrevA » 29 Jun 2020, 4:27pm

I think most manufacturers now produce a race bike and an equivalent endurance bike, horses for courses!

I loved my Domane, but I’m quite happy on the Cannondale with a flipped stem, even though it may offend some of the purists.
Image Attachments
78DE8941-A69F-4B72-946C-635331A8817A.jpeg
98D0C2E6-31E8-4D9B-80B7-68D75881CFB8.jpeg
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com

gxaustin
Posts: 568
Joined: 23 Sep 2015, 12:07pm

Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby gxaustin » 29 Jun 2020, 5:15pm

Trek Domane (Stack 561, Reach 371)
Simplon Pavo (Stack 571, Reach 377)
Specialized Roubaix (Stack 569, Reach 371)

To which list you could add my Merckx Milano 72 with stack of 597 and reach of 375.
Unfortunately I don't think it is made any longer.

djnotts
Posts: 1586
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby djnotts » 29 Jun 2020, 6:02pm

TrevA wrote:I think most manufacturers now produce a race bike and an equivalent endurance bike, horses for courses!

I loved my Domane, but I’m quite happy on the Cannondale with a flipped stem, even though it may offend some of the purists.


Judging by photos both those have bars below saddle, so still pretty unfriendly for many folk.

Also thin on the ground are nice carbon with low gearing now that triple road stuff all but disappeared and/or flat bars. The former more important to me than front end height.

cycle tramp
Posts: 732
Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby cycle tramp » 29 Jun 2020, 6:18pm

'Slammed stems' appear to be the current fashion at the moment.. back cover of the latest edition of cycle shows a 'kinesis flat bar fitness adventure road bike' and although the head stock is higher than the saddle in the photo, the lack of spacers show there's damned all adjustment...
..and whilst I'm typing, the handlebars look as if they'll cause carpal tunnel syndrome in less than a days ride...
..must be right because in the last photo the rider's having more fun carrying the flipping thing rather than ride it...

..bring back threaded headsets and decent stems..

...cycle uk should know better than display adverts like that

User avatar
TrevA
Posts: 2436
Joined: 1 Jun 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby TrevA » 29 Jun 2020, 6:25pm

djnotts wrote:
TrevA wrote:I think most manufacturers now produce a race bike and an equivalent endurance bike, horses for courses!

I loved my Domane, but I’m quite happy on the Cannondale with a flipped stem, even though it may offend some of the purists.


Judging by photos both those have bars below saddle, so still pretty unfriendly for many folk.

Also thin on the ground are nice carbon with low gearing now that triple road stuff all but disappeared and/or flat bars. The former more important to me than front end height.


My winter bike and touring bike are better in that respect. As an ex-racer, I’m still reasonably flexible, though getting less so as I get older.

The Cannondale is on loan from my son in law, until I can sort a new summer bike. He’s a bit shorter than me, hence the small frame and low front end.

I’m also looking for the holy grail of a reasonably priced, high front end, carbon frame. The Planet X Pro Carbon looked promising, but it’s been replaced with the Evo, and I’m not sure of the dimensions of that. With a frame only, you can spec your own groupset, or transfer from another bike.
Image Attachments
26556064-42E7-4E51-88C0-5C4408FA0452.jpeg
2CC5498E-3B94-46E9-92D2-95F951B73E07.jpeg
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com

Marcus Aurelius
Posts: 1507
Joined: 1 Feb 2018, 10:20am

Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 30 Jun 2020, 6:32am

TrevA wrote:
djnotts wrote:
TrevA wrote:I think most manufacturers now produce a race bike and an equivalent endurance bike, horses for courses!

I loved my Domane, but I’m quite happy on the Cannondale with a flipped stem, even though it may offend some of the purists.


Judging by photos both those have bars below saddle, so still pretty unfriendly for many folk.

Also thin on the ground are nice carbon with low gearing now that triple road stuff all but disappeared and/or flat bars. The former more important to me than front end height.


My winter bike and touring bike are better in that respect. As an ex-racer, I’m still reasonably flexible, though getting less so as I get older.

The Cannondale is on loan from my son in law, until I can sort a new summer bike. He’s a bit shorter than me, hence the small frame and low front end.

I’m also looking for the holy grail of a reasonably priced, high front end, carbon frame. The Planet X Pro Carbon looked promising, but it’s been replaced with the Evo, and I’m not sure of the dimensions of that. With a frame only, you can spec your own groupset, or transfer from another bike.

I’ve also got a Triban 520 as a winter hack. It’s actually quite nice to occasionally use that, rather than my ‘best’ bike, especially if it’s a multi day effort.