To many on here, my carbon plaything (i played 7000km on it last year!) is well slammed with @170mm difference from tos to tob - thats despite @ 30mm of spacers under the stem. Its set like that because thats where i'm comfortable, i've got long arms and legs for my height. Otoh this is what i've done the same mileage on so far this year.
Yes i know, shock horror, its not carbon and it doesn't count more than 14 gears (thank Covid for this being my steed, i can't get to my others atm). The geometry is different to the carbon, its a bigger frame for starters, but the bars are still below the saddle (which i would actually raise by @ 2cm but its beyond the max line already!) I do most of my riding on the hoods which actually puts my hands not far off the same position as on the carbon, again the stem on the old skool threaded set up is as high as it goes.
So i'm not riding 'slammed' for fashion or historic reasons, although i did race over a 25 year period, but because thats where i'm most comfortable. Of the two, for me, the carbon is by far the more comfortable even on its max 23c tyres, the steel above can just squeeze (and i mean just) 25c tyres which make it a bit less rattly.
I'm certainly not a mile muncher like some forumites but my shortest ride this year is 60 miles and it has wandered north of 100 a couple of times so comfort is important to me for perhaps 6 hours in the saddle. Given the response when people ask how far i've ridden i guess this is not usual and the typical 'Mamil', IME, will consider twenty five to be a fair ride, forty a marathon so they've already signed up to not be comfortable and if slammed 'is good enough for the Pros, well its good enough for me.' They aren't looking for comfort, it matters more that they have the latest team shirt, bragging rights on the gear they are riding and look (in their eyes at least), well pukka!
What bike should they be riding? the one they want to ride whether others like the aesthetic or not, the Velominati and contributors here are not the style police however much some wish they were!