Campag chainrings...

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tatanab
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Re: Campag chainrings...

Postby tatanab » 29 Jun 2020, 9:06am

2006ish Record triple square taper. 135 PCD 10 speed 50T. Outer ring, hidden bolt. The only difference between the holes is that the one for the hidden bolt (by the pin, dirty area top right) does NOT have a recess for a screw head.
100_1360.JPG
Note the OP asked about 110 which I guess is the more modern "compact" which I understand to be different to the slightly older stuff that MickF and I have.

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Mick F
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Re: Campag chainrings...

Postby Mick F » 29 Jun 2020, 9:17am

Beat me to it! :D

Here's mine.
IMG_0557.jpg
IMG_0558.jpg
Mick F. Cornwall

slowster
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Re: Campag chainrings...

Postby slowster » 29 Jun 2020, 10:06am

Mick F wrote:That picture of that chainring wouldn't fit my chainset.
Peg holes or otherwise.
All five holes are the same.

But does the recessed shoulder on the TA chainring that would be against the inside of the crank arm actually prevent the chainring from fitting? The presence of the two holes 180 degrees apart for the peg indicates that the Vento model chainring is intended to be used with both hidden bolt and non-hidden bolt type Campagnolo chainsets. It certainly would not fit a non-hidden bolt chainset if one of the holes lacked the recess.

As for the OP's problem, it's still not clear exactly what chainset he has/what type of chainring he is seeking, since there are evidently at least two different types of chainring for the Ultra Torque chainsets, and which one is required depends upon the exact model of cranks.

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Mick F
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Re: Campag chainrings...

Postby Mick F » 29 Jun 2020, 10:35am

slowster wrote:But does the recessed shoulder on the TA chainring that would be against the inside of the crank arm actually prevent the chainring from fitting?
Just checked a normal hole.

The non-recessed hole has a stainless flanged washer between it and the crank. There's an aluminium spacer between the outer and middle ring, and a special aluminium bolt that fits it all together.
The other four holes are recessed and fit conventionally on the crank spider.

By fitting the stainless flanged washer into a normal recessed hole, it wobbles about a bit but doesn't "dig in" into the recess as it's slightly wider.

It wouldn't be ideal, but no doubt you could fit it like that because the bolt will tighten the whole lot anyway.
Mick F. Cornwall

Raph
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Re: Campag chainrings...

Postby Raph » 29 Jun 2020, 12:48pm

The issue is the thickness - the campag chainring is 2.7mm thick (can't remember exactly, but somewhere around that), so since one surface mates on the outside (away from the frame, into the inside of the crank) and the other 4 on the inside (outside of the spider arms therefore facing the frame) - it has to be the correct thickness, or it gets pushed inward (towards the frame) at the one bolt that attached to the crank, since the thickness required is set by the distance between the plane of the 4 bolts and the surface of the crank where it meets the ring. (Phew!)

So, either - do TA make chainrings 2.7mm thick, or do campag do a 50T (or others) in 135BCD?

If the ring is thinner then it needs to be dished like the campag ring, so the teeth come out the right distance from the inner ring. Hard to tell from pics but I haven't seen any TA rings on sale that look like they're dished.

The TA ring I got does have one non-recessed hole, so is meant for this design, but is still the wrong thickness. I have no loyalty whatsoever to campag and the TA ring works perfectly now that it's modified, but it was a bit of a faff.

Mick F - I didn't notice any stainless flanged washer in the original, and the special bolt is steel, also I notice in your pics there's no dishing, the chainring's flat, whereas mine is definitely thinner and dished. So maybe I've got different cranks to yours?

slowster
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Re: Campag chainrings...

Postby slowster » 29 Jun 2020, 2:01pm

Raph wrote:The issue is the thickness - the campag chainring is 2.7mm thick (can't remember exactly, but somewhere around that), so since one surface mates on the outside (away from the frame, into the inside of the crank) and the other 4 on the inside (outside of the spider arms therefore facing the frame) - it has to be the correct thickness, or it gets pushed inward (towards the frame) at the one bolt that attached to the crank, since the thickness required is set by the distance between the plane of the 4 bolts and the surface of the crank where it meets the ring. (Phew!)

So, either - do TA make chainrings 2.7mm thick, or do campag do a 50T (or others) in 135BCD?

You still have not told us what model of Ultra Torque chainset you have. Have you read my posts above with the photograph of the TA Tivano chainring and the links to the Stronglight chainrings designed to fit Ultra Torque cranks?

tatanab
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Re: Campag chainrings...

Postby tatanab » 29 Jun 2020, 2:33pm

To avoid going round in circles, on the campag website, select spare parts catalogue under document type and scroll down to the approx year of your cranks, find the model in the catalogue and i twill show you what rings were available. https://www.campagnolo.com/UK/en/Support/download

Raph
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Re: Campag chainrings...

Postby Raph » 29 Jun 2020, 5:02pm

slowster wrote:You still have not told us what model of Ultra Torque chainset you have.

I have two: Veloce and Mirage. I didn't know there were many types of ultra torque. Any other indications of which type? Stamped numbers on the backs of the cranks? Both have the same thin, dished outer ring, about 2.7mm at the bolt holes. PS and they're both 135BCD.

PS a search for veloce on the campag site brings up power torque, not ultra torque. And a search for Mirage gets "no results"!!

Both sets have similar looking cranks, on one of them I've put the 48T TA ring that I had to grind down, the other I've left the 53T on for now.

The problem isn't so much the high gears it's more the jump from 39 to 53. I'm used to the old-fashioned 42/52, double shifts are rare, and as I'm getting more geriatric it's gone to 40/50, and on an old steel Bottechia I have 38/48. I really don't use gears above about 90"-95", so a 50T ring with a 14T top is ample.

PS tatanab thanks for the campag link, and I also have a square taper record chainset which has "normal" rings - i.e. around 4mm thick & not dished, same malarkey with the hidden bolt - no problem with that! But I was asking about ultra torque in the original post. Also as mentioned it's 10 speed, I'm using it with a 9sp system but it works flawlessly, hence wanting to get a genuine campag ring if possible (and if not exorbitant!)

I can see I'll probably just get another TA ring and set up my pillar drill with a milling bit or a modified drill bit and cut the ring down to the right thickness. I did the last one by hand, took ages!

tatanab
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Re: Campag chainrings...

Postby tatanab » 29 Jun 2020, 5:31pm

2008 spares shows both Mirage and Veloce Ultra Torque https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... part_A.pdf Only 52 and 53 rings

Raph
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Re: Campag chainrings...

Postby Raph » 29 Jun 2020, 7:14pm

tatanab wrote:2008 spares shows both Mirage and Veloce Ultra Torque https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... part_A.pdf Only 52 and 53 rings

Brilliant - thanks tatanab! I couldn't find anything on a search, kept getting "no results".

Confirms what I feared... only 52/42 or 53/39 in 135BCD or 50/34 in 110BCD.

Since the inner's worn I have to replace both, so I could live with 52/42, though if so I might end up using the 16-up BBB cassette I've got - 88" top gear. Or preferably a 15T top if I can find one. Hmmmm...

Or back to TA, which I really like anyway. It's frustrating that ads on the usual websites give so little information - they just say "campag", some give the BCD and some don't, some give a heading saying one BCD and then a different one in the blurb... and none of them say which model of campag they're for.

I think I'll just go for the same as before, it'll be 4mm thick and I'll grind it down to fit.

In short - question answered - Thanks everyone!

slowster
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Re: Campag chainrings...

Postby slowster » 29 Jun 2020, 7:20pm

Raph wrote:
slowster wrote:You still have not told us what model of Ultra Torque chainset you have.

I have two: Veloce and Mirage. I didn't know there were many types of ultra torque. Any other indications of which type? Stamped numbers on the backs of the cranks? Both have the same thin, dished outer ring, about 2.7mm at the bolt holes. PS and they're both 135BCD.

PS a search for veloce on the campag site brings up power torque, not ultra torque. And a search for Mirage gets "no results"!!

Stronglight list two different chainrings for 135mm BCD 9/10 speed Campagnolo Ultra Torque chainsets, 'Type B' and 'Type C'. Type B is the one made for Veloce and Mirage chainsets, and the thinner section of the chainring around the hidden bolt hole is visible in the image below (and appears to match the TA Tivano chainring). How does the Campagnolo chainring which you have replaced on your chainset differ from that?

Image

Raph
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Re: Campag chainrings...

Postby Raph » 29 Jun 2020, 9:46pm

Hey - yes, that's exactly what my TA ring looks like after I ground that part thinner. By "exactly" I mean minus the fact that mine's obviously a DIY job!

Just have to find one on sale now - not so easy as shops never give enough detail. BikeInn have it supposedly in stock but their website is playing up. Others are in France... I've just had a few international postage hassles, not sure I want more.

Meanwhile though I've found a way of mounting a ring on my pillar drill table and sliding it around. I've got a router bit that I reckon would do the job of milling a mil or so off, so might still go for another TA.

I really appreciate all the help - if I can find one I'll probably go for it.

slowster
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Re: Campag chainrings...

Postby slowster » 29 Jun 2020, 10:21pm

Raph wrote:Hey - yes, that's exactly what my TA ring looks like after I ground that part thinner. By "exactly" I mean minus the fact that mine's obviously a DIY job!

Just have to find one on sale now - not so easy as shops never give enough detail. BikeInn have it supposedly in stock but their website is playing up. Others are in France... I've just had a few international postage hassles, not sure I want more.

Meanwhile though I've found a way of mounting a ring on my pillar drill table and sliding it around. I've got a router bit that I reckon would do the job of milling a mil or so off, so might still go for another TA.

I really appreciate all the help - if I can find one I'll probably go for it.

As I said above the TA Tivano chainring is also an option:

https://www.slanecycles.com/ta-specialites-tivano-135-bcd-campagnolo-10-speed-ultra-torque-c-p-27316.html

Raph
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Location: Banbury

Re: Campag chainrings...

Postby Raph » 29 Jun 2020, 10:34pm

Oh yeah - thanks I did see that, but I've looked at about a thousand chainrings on the net and got totally discombobulated! I probably would have gone for it if I'd remembered... but at that price it's sort of neck and neck with getting the regular one and doing the grinding myself. Except if I mess it up of course! But I managed the first one with no more than an angle grinder, a file and some calipers, so this time I think I'll do a neater job. If the result isn't too embarrassing I might post the pics on here...