50s lightweight frame - 27.0mm seat post?

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deliquium
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Re: 50s lightweight frame - 27.0mm seat post?

Postby deliquium » 26 Jul 2020, 12:09am

I have a 1948 Accles & Pollock Kromo SAQ tubed Percy Stallard "Montlhéry" frame which takes a 27.2mm seat post. The lightest and most comfortable (springy) frame I've ever had the pleasure of riding :D
Current pedalable joys

"you would be surprised at the number of people in these parts who nearly are half people and half bicycles"

avecReynolds531
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Joined: 22 Mar 2020, 6:12pm

Re: 50s lightweight frame - 27.0mm seat post?

Postby avecReynolds531 » 26 Jul 2020, 1:10pm

Brucey wrote:'air-hardening' all too easily becomes 'air embrittling' with some steels. Higher strength means higher residual stresses too (bad).


Thanks, does this affect the AP Kromo frames? Would this be a reason why Reynolds were relatively late in introducing it?

scottg wrote:I've a 1954 frame, takes a Reynolds No. 4 post.
26.9 in new money. Start with a 27mm, emery paper to fit.
,

Thanks, wasn't aware of that - that's new learning for me.
deliquium wrote:
I have a 1948 Accles & Pollock Kromo SAQ tubed Percy Stallard "Montlhéry" frame which takes a 27.2mm seat post. The lightest and most comfortable (springy) frame I've ever had the pleasure of riding


That's a lovely bike & great photos too- thanks. Appreciate the feedback of your AP Kromo frame - I hope my frame will be similar!

Des49
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Re: 50s lightweight frame - 27.0mm seat post?

Postby Des49 » 26 Jul 2020, 3:03pm

deliquium wrote:I have a 1948 Accles & Pollock Kromo SAQ tubed Percy Stallard "Montlhéry" frame which takes a 27.2mm seat post. The lightest and most comfortable (springy) frame I've ever had the pleasure of riding :D


Beautiful bike, thanks for sharing.

avecReynolds531
Posts: 36
Joined: 22 Mar 2020, 6:12pm

Re: 50s lightweight frame - 27.0mm seat post?

Postby avecReynolds531 » 27 Jul 2020, 2:03pm

deliquium wrote:I have a 1948 Accles & Pollock Kromo SAQ tubed Percy Stallard "Montlhéry" frame which takes a 27.2mm seat post. The lightest and most comfortable (springy) frame I've ever had the pleasure of riding :D


I noticed there is a 7 speed Ultegra set up on the Montlhery. Did this require cold setting the stays?

I'm possibly thinking of cold setting the frame I have - but 118mm to 130mm sounds a lot of movement & the possibility of cracking bridges or brazing is a concern.

I've seen a beautiful 1954 AS Gillott accommodating 11 speed Campagnolo - http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... &mobile=on

Any experiences and observations from forum readers about cold setting are welcomed and appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom

Brucey
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Re: 50s lightweight frame - 27.0mm seat post?

Postby Brucey » 27 Jul 2020, 2:30pm

cold setting is never 100% risk free. However my main objection to it in vintage frames is that it 100% prohibits you from ever using the correct parts in the rear wheel ever again.

This week's indexed groupset on a vintage bike? It is a bit like putting deeley-boppers on the Mona Lisa, isn't it?

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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deliquium
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Location: Eryri

Re: 50s lightweight frame - 27.0mm seat post?

Postby deliquium » 27 Jul 2020, 2:57pm

avecReynolds531 wrote:
deliquium wrote:I have a 1948 Accles & Pollock Kromo SAQ tubed Percy Stallard "Montlhéry" frame which takes a 27.2mm seat post. The lightest and most comfortable (springy) frame I've ever had the pleasure of riding :D


I noticed there is a 7 speed Ultegra set up on the Montlhery. Did this require cold setting the stays?


Yes, but 8 speed! I cold set the rear drop outs to 130mm, knowing the risks (and checked and adjusted/bent them to be parallel too). But having done it on several frames previously which were somewhat stiffer, so I was happy to give it a go. George Longstaff referred to it as "spragging"

When it was repainted by Bob Jackson, I also got them to braze on a gear hanger :roll: Didn't want to faff with those bolt on adaptors.

13-32 custom made Shimano cassette and 46/34 chainset - and I have the sweetest bike I have ever ridden.

No qualms whatsoever about 'modifying' it.
Current pedalable joys

"you would be surprised at the number of people in these parts who nearly are half people and half bicycles"

avecReynolds531
Posts: 36
Joined: 22 Mar 2020, 6:12pm

Re: 50s lightweight frame - 27.0mm seat post?

Postby avecReynolds531 » 27 Jul 2020, 3:31pm

Brucey wrote:cold setting is never 100% risk free. However my main objection to it in vintage frames is that it 100% prohibits you from ever using the correct parts in the rear wheel ever again.

This week's indexed groupset on a vintage bike? It is a bit like putting deeley-boppers on the Mona Lisa, isn't it?

cheers


Thanks, I've been so used to 20+ years of Campagnolo ergo levers that it's a bad habit. I appreciate the safety and efficiency of the integrated brake/levers, but also the question of incongruity with a 50s frame.

Having returned to friction down tube levers in the last few years with an early 80s 531, it's been nostalgic & not really any trouble - occasionally misjudging a change - "It's in there somewhere!"

The risk of damaging a vintage frame is, for me, a significant consideration.

deliquium wrote:
avecReynolds531 wrote:
deliquium wrote:I have a 1948 Accles & Pollock Kromo SAQ tubed Percy Stallard "Montlhéry" frame which takes a 27.2mm seat post. The lightest and most comfortable (springy) frame I've ever had the pleasure of riding :D


I noticed there is a 7 speed Ultegra set up on the Montlhery. Did this require cold setting the stays?


Yes, but 8 speed! I cold set the rear drop outs to 130mm, knowing the risks (and checked and adjusted/bent them to be parallel too). But having done it on several frames previously which were somewhat stiffer, so I was happy to give it a go. George Longstaff referred to it as "spragging"

When it was repainted by Bob Jackson, I also got them to braze on a gear hanger :roll: Didn't want to faff with those bolt on adaptors.

13-32 custom made Shimano cassette and 46/34 chainset - and I have the sweetest bike I have ever ridden.

No qualms whatsoever about 'modifying' it.


Thanks for this - excellent choices of parts and ratios, and good to learn there weren't any problems with the cold set.
That is truly a lovely bicycle.

Brucey
Posts: 42883
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: 50s lightweight frame - 27.0mm seat post?

Postby Brucey » 27 Jul 2020, 9:25pm

the thing is that even you are totally addicted to ergos and the like there is still no compelling reason to widen the rear hub; a ~120mm frame can use a 'compact 6' freewheel; this will index using 7s and some 8s shift equipment, and the frame can stay 'original' and can still be built up with period correct parts later on if this matters to you.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

avecReynolds531
Posts: 36
Joined: 22 Mar 2020, 6:12pm

Re: 50s lightweight frame - 27.0mm seat post?

Postby avecReynolds531 » 28 Jul 2020, 7:44am

Thanks for this advice - best of both worlds in that solution.