How much better would a CDF be than my current bike
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How much better would a CDF be than my current bike
I have a notion of late that I will get a new to me bike or at least a new to me frameset and put the parts from my current bike on it. A Croix De Fer or surly cross check is what I am leaning towards.
This is my current bike from 1985 I believe , a chromoly Koga Miyata light touring bike;
I want to ask if there is actually much point switching between these two frames. Putting the clear advantage of disc brakes aside , What would be so much better about a CDF or cross check over my current bikes frame?
Any components I could put on a CDF I could put on this bike (disc brakes aside) , the only other difference would be threaded v unthreaded steerer. The wheelbases are similar , I could get the saddle and handle bar in the same position on either bike. The frame clearances are the same. Any tyres I could put on a CDF I could put on my 80s tourer. From what I have read the CDF would weigh about the same too.
So would there actually be any tangible benefit in switching to a more modern but similar frame that would make me believe its worth the money and effort? Is there just a bit of hype around the marketing of bicycles ?
This is my current bike from 1985 I believe , a chromoly Koga Miyata light touring bike;
I want to ask if there is actually much point switching between these two frames. Putting the clear advantage of disc brakes aside , What would be so much better about a CDF or cross check over my current bikes frame?
Any components I could put on a CDF I could put on this bike (disc brakes aside) , the only other difference would be threaded v unthreaded steerer. The wheelbases are similar , I could get the saddle and handle bar in the same position on either bike. The frame clearances are the same. Any tyres I could put on a CDF I could put on my 80s tourer. From what I have read the CDF would weigh about the same too.
So would there actually be any tangible benefit in switching to a more modern but similar frame that would make me believe its worth the money and effort? Is there just a bit of hype around the marketing of bicycles ?
Re: How much better would a CDF be than my current bike
a bit of hype?
if that bike fits you well and you're in a good position whilst riding it then i'd stick with that and maintain it as best as you can. i assume that you're using it for 'everyday' riding rather than setting any records with it.
ride it, ride it and ride it some more. when it gets to the point of not being repairable then look to replace.
most of my bikes are from the early 90s and have seen a fair few miles since then. not the latest tech but all perfectly functional and do the job i require of them.
if that bike fits you well and you're in a good position whilst riding it then i'd stick with that and maintain it as best as you can. i assume that you're using it for 'everyday' riding rather than setting any records with it.
ride it, ride it and ride it some more. when it gets to the point of not being repairable then look to replace.
most of my bikes are from the early 90s and have seen a fair few miles since then. not the latest tech but all perfectly functional and do the job i require of them.
Re: How much better would a CDF be than my current bike
Having disc brakes means that the forks will be stiffer and ride more harshly.
Re: How much better would a CDF be than my current bike
Cross Check is a nice, versatile, frame (I have one), but doesn’t have discs. I would guess you’d see basically no benefit from a new frame, with a significant risk that you’d actually end with something less comfortable, for the reason mentioned above.
Re: How much better would a CDF be than my current bike
jimneycricket wrote:So would there actually be any tangible benefit in switching to a more modern but similar frame that would make me believe its worth the money and effort?
What will you use the bike for?
Jonathan
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Re: How much better would a CDF be than my current bike
Jdsk wrote:jimneycricket wrote:So would there actually be any tangible benefit in switching to a more modern but similar frame that would make me believe its worth the money and effort?
What will you use the bike for?
Jonathan
My usual style of cycling , just local cycles along country lanes , exploring forestry and some touring duties no longer than a few days to a week.
Re: How much better would a CDF be than my current bike
I prefer a good threaded headset any day. Looks to me like you have a perfectly good bike there. If you're happy with the fit and the ride and don't see disc brakes as a must I would stick with it. BTW I think it's lovely.
Re: How much better would a CDF be than my current bike
Given your other threads about not being able to get your saddle far back enough, be very careful about any new frame purchase. If your current bike has a 72 degree seat angle (more likely for a tourer of that era), then that is probably going to disqualify a lot of modern frames with steeper seat angles, e.g. the large size CDF has a 73 degree seat angle.
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Re: How much better would a CDF be than my current bike
[quote="slowster"]Given your other threads about not being able to get your saddle far back enough, be very careful about any new frame purchase. If your current bike has a 72 degree seat angle (more likely for a tourer of that era), then that is probably going to disqualify a lot of modern frames with steeper seat angles, e.g. the large size CDF has a 73 degree seat angle.[/quote
Interesting and good knowledge to have , I would not have considered that.
Interesting and good knowledge to have , I would not have considered that.
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Re: How much better would a CDF be than my current bike
I would expect both to be a step down from what you have already.
The cross check is really quite a basic seamed tubing steel frame. It's only the lack of competition in modern horizontal dropout frames that commends it. Great for a hack, winter bike or commuter, back when it was cheap. Now the price has got way out of hand though.
Never tried a cdf but as others have said I think you'll find a compromise in comfort for your discs. Maybe hydraulic rim brakes would be another option.
The cross check is really quite a basic seamed tubing steel frame. It's only the lack of competition in modern horizontal dropout frames that commends it. Great for a hack, winter bike or commuter, back when it was cheap. Now the price has got way out of hand though.
Never tried a cdf but as others have said I think you'll find a compromise in comfort for your discs. Maybe hydraulic rim brakes would be another option.
Re: How much better would a CDF be than my current bike
jimneycricket wrote:...This is my current bike from 1985 I believe , a chromoly Koga Miyata light touring bike;...
not much there from 1985, is there...?
In the main you are talking about replacing one CroMo frame with another. They'll ride differently for sure (*) which you may like or not. But the most important thing is that the frame fits you; everything else is of secondary importance.
The 'clear advantage of disc brakes' isn't at all clear to me; with disc brakes the bike will end up heavier, more expensive, less easy to work on, more vulnerable to brake damage in transit, with (all else being equal) stiffer forks that provide inferior comfort.
cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: How much better would a CDF be than my current bike
Looking at your setup it doesn't look particularly heavy.
Therefore I would think that a equalibrium might be a more enjoyable daily ride yet with the ability to take a rack and light panniers.
Just a thought
Cheers James
Therefore I would think that a equalibrium might be a more enjoyable daily ride yet with the ability to take a rack and light panniers.
Just a thought
Cheers James
Re: How much better would a CDF be than my current bike
Don't forget people to factor in the new bike element. A new bike is worth much in the way of satisfaction and new toys are fun.
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Re: How much better would a CDF be than my current bike
mattsccm wrote:Don't forget people to factor in the new bike element. A new bike is worth much in the way of satisfaction and new toys are fun.
True but how long does that feeling last?
There is the opposite view that a bike that you've travelled many miles on becomes almost a part of you.
Re: How much better would a CDF be than my current bike
OP, I think it's almost certain that any modern off the peg frame that you bought would be stiffer than your Koga Miyata - the oversize tubing used as standard nowadays makes that almost inevitable. A modern off the peg 1 1/8" threadless fork that is designed for cantilevers/V brakes will also be stiffer than the one on your current bike, and one for use with disc brakes will be even stiffer.
I don't know how much you weigh, or how powerful a rider you are, but you are clearly quite tall. You have a large frame, and the key question is whether or not it is comfortable and whether it is stiff enough for you.
I recall one poster saying that the introduction of modern oversize tubing had been a game changer for him, because he was so tall and big that traditional sized tubes in an off the peg frame for his size resulted in frames that were too flexible. You might be like him and prefer a modern stiffer frame, but you might not. The irony is that now the pendulum has swung so far that stiffer oversized tubing is now standard, and if you wanted a frame that handled like your Koga Miyata now you would probably have to find a good custom builder and spend north of £1,000.
As it happens, the man who designed Genesis' Equilibrium frame (and possibly the CDF as well) posted yesterday here about this very subject. He himself states that the Equilibrium is quite a stiff bike.
My take on disc brakes is that they make most sense when you want to use very wide tyres, i.e. >40mm, when the wide tyres will compensate for the stiffer fork required by the disc brake. With narrower tyres, a rim brake on a less stiff fork gives a better ride. But as I said above, I think even the modern forks for cantilevers/V brakes will be stiffer than what you currently have.
If you want to take things any further, my advice would be to arrange a test ride on a Spa steel tourer. It will be stiffer than your current bike. You might find that better for you, or you might not. If you liked the increased stiffness, you might then want to try a frame with disc brakes, to see if that was even better.
I don't know how much you weigh, or how powerful a rider you are, but you are clearly quite tall. You have a large frame, and the key question is whether or not it is comfortable and whether it is stiff enough for you.
I recall one poster saying that the introduction of modern oversize tubing had been a game changer for him, because he was so tall and big that traditional sized tubes in an off the peg frame for his size resulted in frames that were too flexible. You might be like him and prefer a modern stiffer frame, but you might not. The irony is that now the pendulum has swung so far that stiffer oversized tubing is now standard, and if you wanted a frame that handled like your Koga Miyata now you would probably have to find a good custom builder and spend north of £1,000.
As it happens, the man who designed Genesis' Equilibrium frame (and possibly the CDF as well) posted yesterday here about this very subject. He himself states that the Equilibrium is quite a stiff bike.
My take on disc brakes is that they make most sense when you want to use very wide tyres, i.e. >40mm, when the wide tyres will compensate for the stiffer fork required by the disc brake. With narrower tyres, a rim brake on a less stiff fork gives a better ride. But as I said above, I think even the modern forks for cantilevers/V brakes will be stiffer than what you currently have.
If you want to take things any further, my advice would be to arrange a test ride on a Spa steel tourer. It will be stiffer than your current bike. You might find that better for you, or you might not. If you liked the increased stiffness, you might then want to try a frame with disc brakes, to see if that was even better.