Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames

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iandusud
Posts: 565
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames

Postby iandusud » 16 Aug 2020, 9:36am

As I see it it's horses for courses. I have bikes built of steel of various grades, aluminium alloy and CF. They are all great at what they do and represent good value for money. My CF road bike is light, responsive and a delight to ride, but it has no mudguards or rack so is not suitable for everyday transport. Re the original post I consider that there is a serious design issue and that is where the problem lies. In many ways I see CF as the ideal material for building bike frames as it can be made to very strong where strength is most needed much more easily that with conventional materials. Steel is not without it's issues. I have seen frame failures from poor brazing and corrosion. Also a head-on collision at quite low speed will easily bend the top and down tubes behind the head lugs on a lightweight steel frame whereas I would expect a CF frame to be more resilient in this area due the load being better distributed.

mercalia
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Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames

Postby mercalia » 16 Aug 2020, 10:01am

I was reviewing gravel bikes to see how they compare to my dawes 1-Down, thinking other King Alfreds Way soon to open. What I found not a single steel framed bike, most were carbon fibre and alloy. That surprised me with all the knocks that the bike would have to take

tim-b
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Joined: 10 Oct 2009, 8:20am

Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames

Postby tim-b » 16 Aug 2020, 10:20am

Hi
Kona and Vitus make steel-framed gravel/adventure bikes (I'm not entirely sure of the differences), there are probably others
Regards
tim-b
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames

Postby Brucey » 16 Aug 2020, 10:32am

practicality, fashion and engineering are strange bedfellows; no squaring this circle anytime soon, methinks....

For myself I don't think there is any such thing as a perfect material for building bikes out of, but of those available I feel most comfortable (in several senses) with steel.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Navara
Posts: 169
Joined: 29 Jun 2020, 11:38pm

Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames

Postby Navara » 16 Aug 2020, 10:34am

mercalia wrote:I was reviewing gravel bikes to see how they compare to my dawes 1-Down, thinking other King Alfreds Way soon to open. What I found not a single steel framed bike, most were carbon fibre and alloy. That surprised me with all the knocks that the bike would have to take

I have an Aluminum CX and I ride it on the trails I used to ride my MTBs on.It's had a hammering in the 3 years I've had it.I obviously can't hit them at the speed I could on a FS but it will take everything I throw at it!The only limitation is my body :lol:

JohnW
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Location: Yorkshire

Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames

Postby JohnW » 16 Aug 2020, 11:39am

Brucey wrote:practicality, fashion and engineering are strange bedfellows; no squaring this circle anytime soon, methisie offks....

For myself I don't think there is any such thing as a perfect material for building bikes out of, but of those available I feel most comfortable (in several senses) with steel.

cheers

Yes - I say the same, except that as other materials become more fashionable, and profit-seekers follow fashion, will sales volume for steel shrink to the point that development and expertise may disappear?

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tykeboy2003
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Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames

Postby tykeboy2003 » 16 Aug 2020, 11:51am

djnotts wrote:Why would anyone WANT a bike that lasts for years? I just get bored. By carbon touring what I really mean is big tyres and mudguards! A grand a year depreciation is neither here nor there.


My touring bike was bought in 2012 for £650 (new) and is still like brand new (after over 10,000 miles), it's a steel frame and is very comfortable to ride. The extra weight is insignificant in comparison to the total weight of bike and rider. Why wouldn't I want it to last forever?

You obviously have money to burn.... Can I give you my address and you can send some to me?

djnotts
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Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames

Postby djnotts » 16 Aug 2020, 1:38pm

tykeboy2003 wrote:
djnotts wrote:Why would anyone WANT a bike that lasts for years? I just get bored. By carbon touring what I really mean is big tyres and mudguards! A grand a year depreciation is neither here nor there.


My touring bike was bought in 2012 for £650 (new) and is still like brand new (after over 10,000 miles), it's a steel frame and is very comfortable to ride. The extra weight is insignificant in comparison to the total weight of bike and rider. Why wouldn't I want it to last forever?

You obviously have money to burn.... Can I give you my address and you can send some to me?


Sorry, far from money to burn! The extra weight (and comfort) is not insignificant to me. I can ride ok with local Easy Ride CTC group on carbon with triple snd 24T inner ring. 10 - 20% slower on steel tourer, more on hills which means they have to wait for me
I do not like putting them to such trouble.
The carbon is not suited to raiin and bridleways, hence the desire for a more "touring" rig.
Cost would be covered by selling Brompton at current inflated prices.
A carbon gravel bike would be good, except that all relatively cheap ones are geared way too high and I dont really like 1 x 11 drive trains.
Just ride alone the answer I suppose.

Navara
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Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames

Postby Navara » 16 Aug 2020, 2:09pm

tykeboy2003 wrote:You obviously have money to burn

I don't think it's a case of money to burn.People have different thoughts on what to do with the money they have.Some spend,spend,spend..some save,save,save.I do both.I save for holidays etc but I also spend my disposable income on things I like.I don't see the point in saving for savings sake.You're a long time dead!
Back in my 20s/30s I was out every night(when not on nights) and would typically spend £30-40 per night and double that at weekends.I also smoked heavily until I was 31(40+ a day).I had a brand new Motorbike every 2 years.I do non of those things now so in reality have much more spare cash.I spend that on things I like.I couldn't tell you how much pa I spend on bikes and bike related stuff.I don't particularly care!
I spend about £80-100 per week on fuel for my Pick-up and Motorbike and am planning on buying a camper in the next couple of years so that will go up too.It how it is.Things cost money.
It really is only money.You can't take it with you!!

djnotts
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Location: Nottingham

Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames

Postby djnotts » 16 Aug 2020, 2:24pm

Navara wrote:
tykeboy2003 wrote:You obviously have money to burn

I don't think it's a case of money to burn.People have different thoughts on what to do with the money they have.Some spend,spend,spend..some save,save,save.I do both.I save for holidays etc but I also spend my disposable income on things I like.I don't see the point in saving for savings sake.You're a long time dead!
Back in my 20s/30s I was out every night(when not on nights) and would typically spend £30-40 per night and double that at weekends.I also smoked heavily until I was 31(40+ a day).I had a brand new Motorbike every 2 years.I do non of those things now so in reality have much more spare cash.I spend that on things I like.I couldn't tell you how much pa I spend on bikes and bike related stuff.I don't particularly care!
I spend about £80-100 per week on fuel for my Pick-up and Motorbike and am planning on buying a camper in the next couple of years so that will go up too.It how it is.Things cost money.
It really is only money.You can't take it with you!!


Well put. I am an alcoholic who has not had ANY such for over 17 years. What I have spent on bikes to keep at a substitute addiction is minimal by comparison.

slowster
Posts: 1720
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames

Postby slowster » 16 Aug 2020, 2:28pm

djnotts wrote:Sorry, far from money to burn! The extra weight (and comfort) is not insignificant to me. I can ride ok with local Easy Ride CTC group on carbon with triple snd 24T inner ring. 10 - 20% slower on steel tourer, more on hills which means they have to wait for me
I do not like putting them to such trouble.
The carbon is not suited to raiin and bridleways, hence the desire for a more "touring" rig.
Cost would be covered by selling Brompton at current inflated prices.
A carbon gravel bike would be good, except that all relatively cheap ones are geared way too high and I dont really like 1 x 11 drive trains.
Just ride alone the answer I suppose.

Could you buy a carbon gravel bike with a custom build of components of your choice? For example it looks like Dolan's and Ribble's carbon gravel frames might meet your requirements:

https://www.dolan-bikes.com/dolan-dr1-carbon-disc-road-frameset-copy/

https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-cgr-sl-frameset/

Buy one of them or similar and get it built up to your specification, either by them, your local bike shop or DIY.

The low weight of a carbon frame is a big performance advantage, but the wheels and tyres would also probably make a lot of difference. For example DCR wheels list a 370g carbon rim which is intended specifically for gravel bikes, the Venn 259. A pair of wheels with those rims and Rene Herse/Compass tyres to suit your preference and frame clearances would probably give you as much performance/weight benefit as a carbon frame vs titanium, if not more.

Ross K
Posts: 61
Joined: 25 Oct 2013, 8:14pm

Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames

Postby Ross K » 16 Aug 2020, 2:33pm

To the OP......good thread title for a troll-type thread - a tad provocative and misleading, maybe?

I regularly ride each of my bikes, all of them high mileage and getting quite old, each one of them.

They are each made, framewise, of either steel, aluminium or titanium and two carbon, one being a TT bike. Each is a favourite for different reasons.

The only one I worry about the longevity of is the aluminium framed one which, as I understand it, is the only material that suffers in the real world from eventual fatigue. It also suffers corrosion from road salt - I retired a Kinesis Racelight due to corroded dropouts.

I never really worry about the carbon frames' longevity, and their bottom brackets seem fine, no creaking. I see no reason to avoid carbon frames, let alone "yet another" reason! :lol:

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames

Postby Cyril Haearn » 16 Aug 2020, 2:41pm

Ross K wrote:To the OP......good thread title for a troll-type thread - a tad provocative and misleading, maybe?
..

Not trollish I think, nor misleading, if it provokes people into thinking and arguing and learning, very good
I have no need, knowledge, interest in very light expensive cycles, nor in €bikes, I do not need either
I can go fast enough on an ordinary cycle, more than 20 kmh! :wink:
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Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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Ross K
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Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames

Postby Ross K » 16 Aug 2020, 2:46pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:
Ross K wrote:To the OP......good thread title for a troll-type thread - a tad provocative and misleading, maybe?
..

Not trollish I think, nor misleading


If you say so... :lol:

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Yet another reason to avoid carbon frames

Postby Cyril Haearn » 16 Aug 2020, 2:54pm

Ross K wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:
Ross K wrote:To the OP......good thread title for a troll-type thread - a tad provocative and misleading, maybe?
..

Not trollish I think, nor misleading


If you say so... :lol:

What do others think?

I learnt a bit about carbon frames here, +1
Did pick one up once, seemed absurdly light in weight :wink:
Entertainer, idealist, intellectual, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies