Spa cycles Caldar leather saddle

[robert17]

I have a Rupert's, which I'm lead to believe it's a Spa Wharfe with a different badge on. Was very hard, two applications of dubbin, top and bottom have worked well. Pleased with it.

[andrew_s]

Are people saying that Brooks are buying lower quality leather than they used to ?

The theory is that it's that cattle go to slaughter younger than they used to before BSE, and the leather is less robust as a result.
I switched to Berthoud, which seem to have thicker leather, and no plastic layer so they break in normally, though slower than my last Brooks did.

[jimlews]

Remove some of the plastic layer....interesting approach ....let us know how you get on!

Progress report on my Warfe:

"Addressed" the plastic layer covering the underside with a Dremel grinding tool in the area beneath the 'sit bones' and discovered that this is there to protect a thick layer of cardboard (brown then white).
At this point the saddle was still rock hard. I continued to grind through this cardboard layer until I uncovered a black layer of (presumably) leather.
I now notice some resilience under the sit bones, but this is still not what I would call a cushy seat.

Given that these saddles seem to be aprox 90% cardboard, it's probably not a good idea to soak them in water.

[SimonCelsa]

That's interesting regarding the cardboard layers as I'm sure somebody else mentioned that as well.

I have no idea if the Calder is manufactured as a cardboard sandwich, however by examining the exposed edges it certainly appears to be one layer of leather. I will have to think up some form of non destructive test to establish the exact composition.

[Paulatic]

Are people saying that Brooks are buying lower quality leather than they used to ?

The theory is that it's that cattle go to slaughter younger than they used to before BSE, and the leather is less robust as a result.
I switched to Berthoud, which seem to have thicker leather, and no plastic layer so they break in normally, though slower than my last Brooks did.

They do but don’t forget some live beyond thirty months. Over 50000 adult cows and bulls killed every month you’d think there plenty of thick hides around.
If hides are thinner than they once were I’d wonder if the introduction of continental breeds to our herds might be more relevant.
Back in the seventies there was a guy nicknamed Warble Willie paid by the hide industry to tour the country educating young farmers on the importance of treating cattle for warble fly. Not treated the fly would burrow and erupt, ruining, the hide at it’s most useful area.

[markjohnobrien]

Are people saying that Brooks are buying lower quality leather than they used to ?

The theory is that it's that cattle go to slaughter younger than they used to before BSE, and the leather is less robust as a result.
I switched to Berthoud, which seem to have thicker leather, and no plastic layer so they break in normally, though slower than my last Brooks did.

Exactly right - that’s why Brooks introduced the organic range of leather with cows from Holland to counteract this British early slaughter affecting the leather quality. The organic range was thicker.

[bikepacker]

I see that Spa are doing a new version of the Nidd, it has a cut-out and titanium rails. Also they are selling it without the synthetic backing to make the breaking in period much shorter. https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m18b0s204p4 ... her-Saddle

[yostumpy]

The Aire also has this non backing option, but not std Nidd , yet. I've had my Nidd for probably 8 years, and at least 50,000 km. A couple of years ago it was still rock hard, and it was summer. So I left the bike in the sun for a while, then smeared some Olive oil all over the saddle, which almost immediately soaked in, then 2 more smearing, and a regular dollop every now and then ( not in damp winter) and it is quite pliable, the skirts can be curled up, and it is very comfy now, but not stretched , as I've not touched the tension. Mine was a honey one btw.

Ps should have said that I smeared the top surface and the bottom edges, not underneath. Quick once over with a hair dryer helps absorption on damper / cooler days

[JohnR]

I see that Spa are doing a new version of the Nidd, it has a cut-out and titanium rails. Also they are selling it without the synthetic backing to make the breaking in period much shorter. https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m18b0s204p4 ... her-Saddle

I've clocked up 250 miles on one of the new Nidd Open saddles without the backing and the omens are looking good: On arrival I smeared the bottom of the saddle with some Brooks Proofide and put it in a warm oven to help it soak in. By the time it had clocked up 50 miles I had forgotten it was a new saddle and at around 200 miles a couple of sit bone depressions appeared (see photo) although a bit further forwards than I think optimum (so I've tilted the nose up a bit more and moved the saddle 5mm forwards).

The combination of the slot and the absence of the backing appear to have substantially shortened the time / miles before the saddle starts to become more flexible. While the sales info claims the slot provides extra comfort due to pressure relief but my impression is that the main source of improved comfort is the slot allowing the two sides of the saddle to flex independently.

I've previously ridden a normal (non-open) Nidd saddle without backing where the depressions had started to form after a couple of thousand miles. Spa Cycles had obtained a few saddles without backing at the start of 2020 as a trial but one had to ask. There might be a Calder without backing sitting on the shelf and I understand that more saddles without backing may be obtained when stock needs replenishing. I would, however, note that the backing provides waterproofing on the underside as protection against the leather getting soaked if ridden without mudguards so the no-backing alternative may not be best for everyone.

[nantman85]

I see that Spa are doing a new version of the Nidd, it has a cut-out and titanium rails. Also they are selling it without the synthetic backing to make the breaking in period much shorter. https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m18b0s204p4 ... her-Saddle

I've clocked up 250 miles on one of the new Nidd Open saddles without the backing and the omens are looking good: On arrival I smeared the bottom of the saddle with some Brooks Proofide and put it in a warm oven to help it soak in. By the time it had clocked up 50 miles I had forgotten it was a new saddle and at around 200 miles a couple of sit bone depressions appeared (see photo) although a bit further forwards than I think optimum (so I've tilted the nose up a bit more and moved the saddle 5mm forwards).
Nidd Open saddle no backing.jpg
The combination of the slot and the absence of the backing appear to have substantially shortened the time / miles before the saddle starts to become more flexible. While the sales info claims the slot provides extra comfort due to pressure relief but my impression is that the main source of improved comfort is the slot allowing the two sides of the saddle to flex independently.

I've previously ridden a normal (non-open) Nidd saddle without backing where the depressions had started to form after a couple of thousand miles. Spa Cycles had obtained a few saddles without backing at the start of 2020 as a trial but one had to ask. There might be a Calder without backing sitting on the shelf and I understand that more saddles without backing may be obtained when stock needs replenishing. I would, however, note that the backing provides waterproofing on the underside as protection against the leather getting soaked if ridden without mudguards so the no-backing alternative may not be best for everyone.

How are you getting on with your unbacked nidd and how many miles have you got on her now?
I got one last week. I noticed it is very supple and had to retension a couple of times. Have you had to give yours more tension?
I can agree with you though it’s not given me any issues as in the harshness at all.

[gazza_d]

I have a Spa Nidd which I bought in 2014 and it took about 500 miles to break in which was similar to my Brooks Team Pro. It's now superbly comfortable.

I've just bought a new Spa Wharfe which is very similar dimensions to the team pro, and it doesn't feel too bad from the off.
Leather does take a while to break in so persist as it will be worth it

[GuyBoden]

I've had a new Spa Calder for a few weeks, it's very solid, so I've rubbed on some Dubbin a few times over the weeks. I did a 65 mile yesterday, the saddle is getting comfier, but not as comfy as my old saddle. If I ride it for a few months, it'll probably get more comfy.

[GuyBoden]

My Spa Caldar saddle is even more comfy, I have been riding it since Sept 2021.

[rogerzilla]

I was given a Wharfe by someone for whom it was too hard. Used it for a year or two. The nosepiece broke and Spa kindly sent a new one. Not long afterwards, one of the rivets popped (the leather didn't tear, the rivet simply snapped). I binned it at that point.

My usual preference is an old 60s/70s Brooks Professional (not Team Pro). I have three, and the leather is very, very thick.

[bgnukem]

Tried breaking in a Nidd with the backing material, which someone else had rejected as too hard, but failed miserably. I weigh around 78kg. Sold it in the end.

Would consider giving a version without the backing material a try.....