Front Lights in Daylight

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
Jdsk
Posts: 2548
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Front Lights in Daylight

Postby Jdsk » 9 Sep 2020, 2:23pm

What's the dynamo headlamp, please?

Contributions needed here:
https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=140858

Jonathan

hjd10
Posts: 276
Joined: 25 Feb 2010, 9:43pm
Location: Originally from Lancashire but now in Lincolnshire

Re: Front Lights in Daylight

Postby hjd10 » 9 Sep 2020, 6:42pm

Jdsk wrote:
fastpedaller wrote:So is your opinion hjd10, that pedestrians should wear lights in daytime? because that's what we'll be heading towards with your logic!

That would be logical if pedestrians were causing as much harm to others as drivers of motor vehicles. They aren't. It isn't.

Jonathan

No correct, but back to cycling, it’s no good trying to argue your point whilst trapped under wheels of a car/motorised vehicle. Whilst you can try to argue the point (and sometimes decisions made have unintended consequences that impact other road users, such as the introduction of DRLs) it falls over as pedestrians/cyclists will always loose out to a car. ☹️

bgnukem
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Re: Front Lights in Daylight

Postby bgnukem » 10 Sep 2020, 2:03pm

Jdsk wrote:What's the dynamo headlamp, please?

Contributions needed here:
https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=140858

Jonathan


DIY special made from two aluminium-bodied LED torches acquired online, 10W LED in each. Made by a friend who understands electronics, so not much use to that thread I'm afraid!

vidyerthy
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Re: Front Lights in Daylight

Postby vidyerthy » 10 Sep 2020, 4:54pm


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RickH
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Location: Horwich, Lancs.

Re: Front Lights in Daylight

Postby RickH » 10 Sep 2020, 5:44pm

freiston wrote:
Ross K wrote:
mjr wrote:Battery lights are only good for people who rarely ride in the dark IMO.


The reality is the complete opposite of your opinion.

That's your opinion!

I'm with Ross K on this one. I bought an Exposure Toro in 2010. At the time I had bikes with 3 different wheel sizes (20",26" & 700C), all of which got ridden in the dark regularly, so dynamo setups would have been an expensive option. With one of Exposure's excellent QR mounts on each bike the light can be swapped in seconds.

Excellent light which did 2 things -

Firstly, I could always see where I was going. There was a particular downhill stretch I used to find problematic but needed to ride regularly (or make a significantly longer detour with a big climb) - a slightly sunken, narrow lane with no lighting but heading directly towards the lights of the town at the bottom of the hill. First runs with the Toro were a revelation, I could actually see clearly.

Secondly, I now found that approaching cars coming into view on unlit roads were pretty much guaranteed to dip their headlights.

I don't know about the newer designs but the mk1 that I have has a fairly tight conical beam that produces a good beam on the road without being dazzlingly bright at eye level.

I've just had the battery replaced by Exposure and it is now probably better than new (I suspect they have put in the higher capacity battery pack of the current model). For its first run out it was on full power for 1 hour 45 minutes or so straight & was still showing a green light (>50% charge).That suggests a runtime on full brightness of more than 3.5 hours instead of the original 3 hours. I'll be out later & will see how it does once the daylight fades, having not charged it since the run the other evening.

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freiston
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Location: Coventry

Re: Front Lights in Daylight

Postby freiston » 10 Sep 2020, 6:51pm

RickH wrote:
freiston wrote:
Ross K wrote:
The reality is the complete opposite of your opinion.

That's your opinion!

I'm with Ross K on this one. <SNIP>

My point in making that post was that Ross K's statement of "reality" was also an opinion and that there is no absolute reality in respect of this.

I have dynamo lights on my main bike and battery lights (including StVZO front lamp) on my folding bike. Personally, having dynamo lights on my main bike (and I do cycle a lot at night) is a no-brainer. Never have to think about batteries running out or charging the lights up, excellent bright beam, pretty much a fit-and-forget solution. My folding bike is not ridden regularly and night-time journeys on it are likely to be short urban trips. I could not justify the cost of equipping it with dynamo lights when I had some old battery lights and some eneloops already in the house. I saw a set of Crivit battery powered StVZO lights (40 lux front light) going for a tenner iirc and "upgraded" to them. If I was to be using the folder regularly at night for anything other than short rides, then I would consider getting dynamo lighting for it.
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)

OldLimey
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Joined: 1 Aug 2020, 8:53pm

Re: Front Lights in Daylight

Postby OldLimey » 13 Sep 2020, 4:45pm

mjr wrote:
OldLimey wrote:Although motorcycling is a different world, I took the experienced rider course three times in ten years, and it was always emphasized to wear bright clothing.


Respectfully, it's not really a surprise if a motorcycling trainer teaches the established orthodoxy, is it? Plus, it's far from certain that motorcycling research applies to cycling at about a fifth of the speed.


I wasn't implying that motorcycle research applies to cycling. My point is that whatever you can do to make yourself more obvious or outstanding, the better it is. The difference in speeds has nothing to do with it because cars cross in front of both bicycles and motorcycles

And yet, I suffered that far more "right crosses" when I was cycling wearing fluo than since I quit, including two minor collisions - and they were only minor because I turned alongside the crossing vehicle.


I never heard of one other person who was involved in collisions while they were wearing high visibility clothing. I suppose it does happen, but I question what you was up to when vehicles crossed your path.

Ever had your battery suddenly go low a mile or two from home?

Nope. Dynamo. I carry emergency lights to cover for wiring faults and so on, but they're tiny legal minimum things. Battery lights are only good for people who rarely ride in the dark IMO.


In your opinion.

Reflective tires are good but not much help when a car is coming the other way and decides to turn across your path. So it still comes back to wearing something bright. Your life may depend on it.

No, it won't: your clothing is irrelevant in that situation if your front light is good enough.


Again, in your opinion.
If I knew how to ride a bike, properly, I'd do it every time

bgnukem
Posts: 447
Joined: 20 Dec 2010, 5:21pm

Re: Front Lights in Daylight

Postby bgnukem » 14 Sep 2020, 12:30pm

Unless every post is going to be backed up by peer reviewed scientific studies, then opinions are all you are every going to find on internet forums such as this!

My opinion is that every battery light I've used has given me little-to-no confidence that:

i) I will be seen by cars
ii) I'll be able to see where I'm going at speed in the dark, and
iii) The batteries won't run out at some inopportune time and leave me in the dark.

Add sudden failure to the list, for some of the Cateyes I've used in the past.

I think many bike lights are not fit for purpose in terms of battery life, waterproofing, shock resistance and their lack of reliability would not be acceptable for, say, a lighting system on a car or other motor vehicle.

Perhaps Exposure are good enough, but for similar money I can buy a new front wheel with a good quality dynohub, plus a decent (B&M) headlamp and not have to worry about sufficient brightness or battery life.

Jdsk
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Re: Front Lights in Daylight

Postby Jdsk » 14 Sep 2020, 12:36pm

bgnukem wrote:Unless every post is going to be backed up by peer reviewed scientific studies, then opinions are all you are every going to find on internet forums such as this!

The most important step in moving to decisions and policy that are based on evidence is to assess the level of evidence. After that it's often necessary to make decisions even when the level of evidence is low. But at least you know that it is.

Jonathan

De Sisti
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Re: Front Lights in Daylight

Postby De Sisti » 14 Sep 2020, 4:23pm

bgnukem wrote:Perhaps Exposure are good enough, but for similar money I can buy a new front wheel with a good quality dynohub, plus a decent (B&M) headlamp and not have to worry about sufficient brightness or battery life.

Depends on which Exposure model you're talking about.

JohnW
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Location: Yorkshire

Re: Front Lights in Daylight

Postby JohnW » 14 Sep 2020, 4:34pm

bgnukem wrote:....................My opinion is that every battery light I've used has given me little-to-no confidence that:
i) I will be seen by cars
ii) I'll be able to see where I'm going at speed in the dark, and
iii) The batteries won't run out at some inopportune time and leave me in the dark...................


Then you've never tried Hope Vision 1 lights!

zenitb
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Re: Front Lights in Daylight

Postby zenitb » 14 Sep 2020, 5:37pm

JohnW wrote:
bgnukem wrote:....................My opinion is that every battery light I've used has given me little-to-no confidence that:
i) I will be seen by cars
ii) I'll be able to see where I'm going at speed in the dark, and
iii) The batteries won't run out at some inopportune time and leave me in the dark...................


Then you've never tried Hope Vision 1 lights!


The battery vs dynamo light will run and run.

If I can make a generalisation though it's that the "all year" "all weathers" commuting cyclists that get most benefit from the dynamo setups. I'm in that category and have three dynamohub bikes the earliest dating from 1998 all still working with zero maintenance.. (bulb, Cyo, Cyo Plus, Luxos). In that time I had battery systems but none have survived regular commuting for more than a year or so. Daily battery recharge cycles (and the summer layoff) seems to kill them all in the end. The ones I had had pretty abrupt cutoff when flat as well ..not ideal for me.

I do know and respect a battery "all year" commuter and in fairness his Magicshine stuff was super powerful and fairly reliable..better than my battery systems. However I think the constant daily recharging/annual buy new battery faff cycle got him down in the end ...he went for a monstrous Exposure Revo dynamo light to try and match his earlier battery light lumens and is sticking with that now.

So everyone to their own really...I think the advent of dynohub/LED was the tipping point for me though..and I suspect other "all year" users as well...

Oh..the original topic ? Yes I leave my Cyo and Luxos lights on all day. More useful on darker days obvs. But the Cyo switch got dodgy so I just left the lights on in the end. No flashing though due to SVTZO (sadly?)

jaybee66
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Joined: 4 Aug 2020, 11:55am

Re: Front Lights in Daylight

Postby jaybee66 » 21 Sep 2020, 9:30am

Wow - thanks for all the replies to the thread - I never thought it would raise so many issues.

I settled for a set of Lezyne KTV bought on the bay here https://ebay.to/2EiXjYw and I can honestly say it HAS made a difference to my visibility to drivers, even though I'm 6ft 4" 17 stone and usually dressed like a tangarine !!

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Front Lights in Daylight

Postby The utility cyclist » 21 Sep 2020, 7:33pm

Four cyclists coming toward me yesterday morning (10:30ish) all had flashing lights on the front, all at different rates/timing, it wasn't just distracting it was a bit disorientating.
Flashing daytime lights at the least should be banned IMHO and at night should be slow pulse mode or steady only as opposed to a flash. I've never used a flashing front light (even though I had it on a few urban lights) and stopped using a flashing rear quite a number of years ago, even that was a very slow flash knightlite.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Front Lights in Daylight

Postby The utility cyclist » 21 Sep 2020, 7:34pm

jaybee66 wrote:Wow - thanks for all the replies to the thread - I never thought it would raise so many issues.

I settled for a set of Lezyne KTV bought on the bay here https://ebay.to/2EiXjYw and I can honestly say it HAS made a difference to my visibility to drivers, even though I'm 6ft 4" 17 stone and usually dressed like a tangarine !!


How has it made a difference, more likely confirmation bias.