Dura Ace downtube shifters - don't believe everything retailers tell you...

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mikeymo
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Dura Ace downtube shifters - don't believe everything retailers tell you...

Postby mikeymo » 12 Sep 2020, 12:43am

...no matter who they are, even SJS.

Some doubt as to whether Dura-ace 9 SPEED downtube shifters offered the ability to switch to friction shifting for the rear shifter:

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=136374&p=1462188&hilit=dura+ace+downtube+friction+shifters#p1462188

I've just got a pair. The RH (RD) shifter can be switched to friction, by turning the D ring thing.

De Sisti
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Re: Dura Ace downtube shifters - don't believe everything retailers tell you...

Postby De Sisti » 12 Sep 2020, 6:43pm

mikeymo wrote:...no matter who they are, even SJS.

Some doubt as to whether Dura-ace 9 SPEED downtube shifters offered the ability to switch to friction shifting for the rear shifter:
The RH (RD) shifter can be switched to friction, by turning the D ring thing!

I believe that to be true.
Are you going retro with downtube shifters?

mikeymo
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Re: Dura Ace downtube shifters - don't believe everything retailers tell you...

Postby mikeymo » 12 Sep 2020, 7:06pm

De Sisti wrote:
mikeymo wrote:...no matter who they are, even SJS.

Some doubt as to whether Dura-ace 9 SPEED downtube shifters offered the ability to switch to friction shifting for the rear shifter:
The RH (RD) shifter can be switched to friction, by turning the D ring thing!

I believe that to be true.
Are you going retro with downtube shifters?


It's an adventure. I've just ordered some (non-STI) brake levers to go with.

Cheaper too. £90 for shifters and levers, compared to £150+ for a pair of Sora STIs. Might even save a few quid on gear cable, over the years.

scottg
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Re: Dura Ace downtube shifters - don't believe everything retailers tell you...

Postby scottg » 12 Sep 2020, 9:48pm

Hmmm, the 10s d/t Shimano shifters have the d ring, friction option.
The 10s Shimano bar-cons do not have a friction option.
That could be the source of the retailers confusion.

9s Shimano bar-cons do have the friction d-ring.


Just checked actual bikes, reality is not as reliable as the internet in most cases
as we all know. :)
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AM7
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Re: Dura Ace downtube shifters - don't believe everything retailers tell you...

Postby AM7 » 12 Sep 2020, 10:28pm

scottg wrote:Hmmm, the 10s d/t Shimano shifters have the d ring, friction option.
The 10s Shimano bar-cons do not have a friction option.
That could be the source of the retailers confusion.

9s Shimano bar-cons do have the friction d-ring.


Just checked actual bikes, reality is not as reliable as the internet in most cases
as we all know. :)

Hmm, my Shimano 10s bar end shifters do have a friction option...

Brucey
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Re: Dura Ace downtube shifters - don't believe everything retailers tell you...

Postby Brucey » 12 Sep 2020, 10:37pm

SL-BS78 (10s) have the friction option
SL-BS79 (10s) don't.

Simples
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mikeymo
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Re: Dura Ace downtube shifters - don't believe everything retailers tell you...

Postby mikeymo » 12 Sep 2020, 11:16pm

What a mess.

So it seems that even 10 Speed Dura-Ace down tube shifters actually are available with the friction option. Or rather than "are available", "have been manufactured and fitted to a working pedal cycle at least once".

And that the Bar End 10 speeds are available with or without the friction option.

No wonder there's confusion.

Are the innards of downtube and bar end shifters likely to be the same? But with a different lever attached to it? So people (cyclists, retailers, Shimano themselves) are getting confused.

Given how hard to turn the D ring on mine was, I wouldn't be at all surprised if some users tried to turn it, and stopped, thinking it wasn't meant to turn.

Brucey
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Re: Dura Ace downtube shifters - don't believe everything retailers tell you...

Postby Brucey » 13 Sep 2020, 9:19am

mikeymo wrote:...So it seems that even 10 Speed Dura-Ace down tube shifters actually are available with the friction option. Or rather than "are available", "have been manufactured and fitted to a working pedal cycle at least once"....


I think there is only one type of 10s (edit; I meant to say 9s....oops) Dura-Ace DT lever (SL-7700) and that it always has a friction mode.

Has anyone actually seen anything else?

cheers
Last edited by Brucey on 13 Sep 2020, 10:10am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mick F
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Re: Dura Ace downtube shifters - don't believe everything retailers tell you...

Postby Mick F » 13 Sep 2020, 9:30am

SL-7700 are 9sp
SL-7900 are 10sp

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-shifte ... -shifters/
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-shifte ... -shifters/

Mine are 10sp and don't have a friction facility for the rear. Only indexed.
Front is friction only.
Mick F. Cornwall

Brucey
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Re: Dura Ace downtube shifters - don't believe everything retailers tell you...

Postby Brucey » 13 Sep 2020, 10:14am

SL-7800 (10s) have a RH D-ring and a friction mode (like SL-BS78)

https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/storage/pdf/en/ev/SL-7800/EV-SL-7800-2281A.pdf

SL-7900 (10s) have no RH D-ring and no friction mode (like SL-BS79)

https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/storage/pdf/en/ev/SL-7900/EV-SL-7900-2872.pdf

My suspicion is that the index units are essentially the same between the relevant DT levers and the BE shifters, but since they are not listed as separate spare parts on the BE EV techdocs, you can't tell this way.

cheers
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Mick F
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Re: Dura Ace downtube shifters - don't believe everything retailers tell you...

Postby Mick F » 13 Sep 2020, 10:37am

I went and studied mine to make SURE it wouldn't go into friction. The only screw, is the slotted screw to fit it together ........ and it does nowt other than make the lever loose and floppy by unscrewing a tad. :lol:

If I wanted to use friction, I have some Campag ones left over from the old days with Mercian and Campag Victory.
Mick F. Cornwall

mikeymo
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Re: Dura Ace downtube shifters - don't believe everything retailers tell you...

Postby mikeymo » 13 Sep 2020, 2:18pm

So based on actual user responses, combined with Shimano docs, it seems, maybe, that:

9s Downtube shifters - only one type, SL-7700, which has friction option, regardless of what Shimano or retailers say.

10s Downtube shifters two types:

SL-7800, which does have friction option.
SL-7900, which doesn't have friction option.

And quite possibly BE shifters to match.

Shimano may have messed up by combining the tech docs for the SL-7700 and SL-7800 (edit), adding confusion. Both of those, it seems have friction shifting. But the SL-7800 is the "old" 10s, whereas the SL-7900 is the "new" ten speed, without friction.

Spare parts for SL-7700 - 8 or 9 speed:

https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/storage/pdf/en/ev/SL-7700/EV-SL-7700-1663.pdf

mikeymo
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Re: Dura Ace downtube shifters - don't believe everything retailers tell you...

Postby mikeymo » 13 Sep 2020, 2:34pm

Mick F wrote:I went and studied mine to make SURE it wouldn't go into friction. The only screw, is the slotted screw to fit it together ........ and it does nowt other than make the lever loose and floppy by unscrewing a tad. :lol:


So are yours SL-7800 or SL-7900? On my SL-7700 the model number is written on the black plastic ring.

mikeymo
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Re: Dura Ace downtube shifters - don't believe everything retailers tell you...

Postby mikeymo » 13 Sep 2020, 2:35pm

scottg wrote:Hmmm, the 10s d/t Shimano shifters have the d ring, friction option.

Just checked actual bikes, reality is not as reliable as the internet in most cases
as we all know. :)


There are TWO different 10 speed d/t shifters.

So are yours SL-7800 or SL-7900? On my SL-7700 the model number is written on the black plastic ring.

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Re: Dura Ace downtube shifters - don't believe everything retailers tell you...

Postby Mick F » 13 Sep 2020, 5:47pm

mikeymo wrote:
Mick F wrote:I went and studied mine to make SURE it wouldn't go into friction. The only screw, is the slotted screw to fit it together ........ and it does nowt other than make the lever loose and floppy by unscrewing a tad. :lol:


So are yours SL-7800 or SL-7900? On my SL-7700 the model number is written on the black plastic ring.
Mine are 7900.
Even with my strong glasses on, there is nothing written on the black plastic ring on the right lever or the left lever.
Mick F. Cornwall