Spa versus Van Nicholas titanium frames

[bikepacker]

He has been riding occasionally with a group out of Pershore and they have told him he needs to get as light as possible and have advised titanium.

On Sunday we are going to do some riding letting him use two of my bikes. First I shall set up for him my Mercian light tourer with 25mm tyres then give him a ride on my BJ World Tour with 32mm tyres. That should give him an idea of how bikes feel and what he thinks he would be most comfortable with. I shall pass on your remarks to him, he then can decide himself on the frame he wants.

He knows that my preference would be for him to have a steel frame.

[nodrog]

If your friend wants to try out a 60cm Van Nic Yukon tell him to pm me. I'm in Redditch.

[Sweep]

The length of the warranty is a good point to look at but most warranties are worthless if the company ceases trading. I think VN did something for Airborne customers when their frames broke, but they could have been left on their own.

Personally I'd go for the VN if I wanted a titanium bike, which I don't. As I understand it, Ti bikes came about because there was a glut of Ti after the collapse of the USSR, looking for new markets. It's never been the ideal bike material and CF soon superseded it for performance and weight. The fatigue limit is meaningless in the real world, just as it is for a steel frame. A bit of careless overheating with the torch, and you have a weak bit of tubing whose fatigue limit can be exceeded frequently on rough roads.

Loved your USSR take on this. If true, very interesting example of "consequences".
Did the USSR previously use much of it in its mega defence projects?
Apologies if covered upthread, but can you say more on this:

>>>"It's never been the ideal bike material"

[rogerzilla]

No metal, especially one in tubes, can compete with anisotropic materials like carbon fibre. Titanium was just available at an affordable price and happens to have some of steel's useful properties, like a (theoretical) fatigue limit and weldability, with less weight and better corrosion resistance.

[pwa]

There is no ideal bike frame material. Carbon ticks lots of boxes but is practically un-recyclable. It is future landfill, maybe a long way off, but eventually, and that bothers me. So it is good but not ideal.

The metals can theoretically be recycled to have a second life, but they too have their flaws. Most steel rusts, or at least it does with me. All steel is dense and can only be light (by modern standards, not those of Thorn) if it has very thin walled tubes that are easily dented.

Titanium does not rust and can achieve a lightish frame without having easily dented tubes, but some frames crack. Neither of mine, so far, with everything crossed.

Aluminium, for me, just signals cheap and cheerful. To be really light it also has to be a bit too fragile for my liking.

So there is no single ideal material.

[rogerzilla]

Aluminium was the mutt's nuts when only Klein and Cannondale were using it. It was still pretty cool when GT were making Zaskars from it. The 7075 tubing that could be more cheaply put together (6061 needed post-weld heat treatment) made it more attractive to volume builders of cheap bikes, and it went out of fashion.

It definitely has its place for suspended bikes, or even MTBs with big tyres; alu frames have to be fat and stiff for best fatigue life, and a totally rigid chassis is a good thing to bolt suspension to.

It was never wildly popular for road racing; we had those skinny Alan and Vitus frames when steel was king, but it fairly quickly went to CF.

[Paul Smith SRCC]

I have two Van Nicholas bikes - I was dragged in by the beautiful 'V' in the fancy dropouts....yes, I am that shallow.

I notice that the latest Yukon doesn't have this feature. Forget it !!

The 'V' in the drop outs is lovely but I don't recall it ever being on the Yukon, one model that has got them is the Amazon

Amazon Drop out

Regarding tyre size and the Yukon, I have the original caliper version and use 700 x 25c with guards, my model has evolved slightly but is in effect still made with the same tyre size recommendation. In reality the Disc version is now far more popular and that can take 28c with guards. For light weight touring on tarmac roads I find 700 x 25c fine, I have even done the odd track on it

For those who prefer to use a larger tyre then the Amazon and Rowtag can take larger 32c with guards and potentially even larger; both have mudguard and rack mounts.