Spa versus Van Nicholas titanium frames

[bikepacker]

There is a guy that lives near to me at the moment he rides an old Raleigh hybrid but wants to start riding Audax and B&B touring. He asked me today if I would help him build a new bike with a titanium frame. He has two frames in mind the Spa Audax and the Van Nicholas Yukon but asked me if I thought the VN was worth the extra £500 or so £s. I hadn't got a clue so could I ask your opinions?

[De Sisti]

He most probably wouldn't notice the difference in ride quality of the frame. But there again, other
things come into play; like saddles, tyres, etc etc.

[greyingbeard]

Buy the one that will fit him the best

[Paulatic]

VN has 25 yr warranty
Spa has 10 yr
Might be a consideration.

[pwa]

Have a look at the geometry of the two. I have the Spa and it has a relatively generous "front centres" figure, meaning my toes don't come near to touching the mudguard. It also has a relaxed seat tube angle which means my saddle is far enough back without me having to ram it all the way back on the seatpost. I don't know how the Yukon scores on those points. The Spa (at least, under my weight) feels a bit noodly if I try to sprint out of the saddle, but it gives a very nice ride if (as I do) I stay mostly seated and spin low gears. Perfect for Audax, in fact. But mine would not have enough clearance for my liking if I tried to get 28mm tyres in there with mudguards. I stick to 25mm with mudguards, but the ride is still fairly nice. It is not twitchy, as a race bike might be. Again, I don't know how the Yukon handles.

Edit:
Having just checked, the Yukon looks okay regarding "front centres" so should be fine for toe clearance. But the seat tube angle is steeper, which may or may not be important. I would not like that myself as I would have difficulty getting my saddle back far enough. I'd be resorting to seatposts with extra long layback. That is a particular problem for users of brooks leather saddles.

[Magpies]

+1 for the Spa Ti audax. I find its geometry with the taller head tube very comfortable for effortless long rides. Mine is surprisingly well finished, as well, with neat welds and thoughtful touches.

[PH]

Just as an observation - despite the names, very few people are riding new Audax bikes for Audax. There seem to be two distinct camps forming, those who race round on road bikes and those looking for something different and are more likely to seek out the growing number that feature some off road or green lanes - these are more likely to be buying a bike in the gravel.adventure racing mold.
I use a tourer, though it took me several Audax bikes to realise all my rides are touring rides, regardless of the bike.

[Shreds]

As ever, it all depends on your personal style and desires regards riding.

I have been an Audax rider for many many years and my bike was made to measure but to my personal preferences. I do like to ‘feel the road’ and like an instant ‘kick’ when I put the effort in. I find relaxed angles and geometry personally send me to sleep and are not reactive enough to occasional needs to avoid potholes or not hit others if they brake sharply. Not everyone will agree with my style of riding, but it has served me well on CTC rides and many, many Audaxes including ones that extend into multi day rides.

As such I do think it is very difficult to advise. Everyone will usually recommend whatever they have quite fervently, but this is not necessarily the best for the OPs contact.

At the end of the day though, it is not entirely about the equipment, it’s personal levels of fitness, experience and mental attitude / determination for these sort of rides. Get that right and everything becomes much easier. ( plus learn all the necessary repair skill so you do not get marooned by equipment failure. On Audaxes there is not always someone around to get you out of trouble). Building the bike up therefore himself is very strongly recommended.

But this is all part of the fun and self sufficiency, stubbornness and determination to ensure you achieve the Brevet.

[pwa]

And a good fit is important in Audax. If the individual already has a good fit established on an existing bike, you will be looking to replicate that. That could be what determines the frame and forks you go for.

[iandriver]

I can only echo PHs comment. I wouldn't buy an Audax bike with road callipers and a limit of 28c with guards. Spa do very nice titanium bikes (i.e. Elan) with better tyre clearances that will be much better light tourers and would be great for Audax also.

[slowster]

wants to start riding Audax and B&B touring

I too would be very wary of getting a bike limited to 28mm - or possibly even just 25mm - tyres for audax and touring. Doubly so if the only bike I had recent experience of riding was a hybrid fitted with much wider tyres.

If starting out, the best option is not to buy a new bike, but to use whatever you already have until you have a very clear idea of what you want/need. A hybrid with wider tyres would probably be better/more comfortable for light B&B touring, and should be quite adequate for entering some audax rides. Riding a few audaxes would give him the opportunity of seeing what more experienced riders use.

I don't know what the Van Nicholas equivalent is, but I suspect that the Spa Elan would be a much better choice than the Audax model, given that it can be used with wide or narrow tyres depending upon whatever the rider prefers for a particular event or tour. If he specifically doesn't want disc brakes, then I would recommend Spa's Ti Touring over the Audax for its ability to take 35mm-38mm tyres.

[bgnukem]

I think tyre clearance could be an issue too.

I bought some Van Nic Yukon carbon forks previously. Struggled to get anything wider than 25mm tyres in with mudguards fitted. Sold the forks again.

A friend has a Spa Ti audax frameset and about 25mm seems to be the limit with decent mudguard clearance, although Spa state they design their frames to use the full drop of deep drop dual pivot calipers.

Disc brakes or V brakes would be the way to go.

[greyingbeard]

The roads are getting rougher, I agree with the above about having bigger tyres as an option. My bike is so much nicer with tyres a size bigger than it came with.

[Tiberius]

I have two Van Nicholas bikes - I was dragged in by the beautiful 'V' in the fancy dropouts....yes, I am that shallow.

I notice that the latest Yukon doesn't have this feature. Forget it !!

[rogerzilla]

The length of the warranty is a good point to look at but most warranties are worthless if the company ceases trading. I think VN did something for Airborne customers when their frames broke, but they could have been left on their own.

Personally I'd go for the VN if I wanted a titanium bike, which I don't. As I understand it, Ti bikes came about because there was a glut of Ti after the collapse of the USSR, looking for new markets. It's never been the ideal bike material and CF soon superseded it for performance and weight. The fatigue limit is meaningless in the real world, just as it is for a steel frame. A bit of careless overheating with the torch, and you have a weak bit of tubing whose fatigue limit can be exceeded frequently on rough roads.