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Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Posted: 17 Oct 2020, 12:34pm
by Si
Going back to the original post, and apologies if I'm repeating what someone else has said somewhere in the eight pages of this subject, but the biggest change for me is more an attitude change by bike makers rather than a technological one. When I were a kid (and all this was fields etc) if you wanted a reasonable budget bike to get around on you had a choice between something that looked like a racer (drop bars, high gears, etc), or a sit up and beg that weighed a ton and had few gears.

Nowadays no ordinary person (as opposed to "keen cyclist") needs to swivel their drop bars upside down so that their back doesn't break, or ride everywhere at a cadence of 20 revs per minute, or get off and push up slight rises, etc because we have these wonderful lightweight, fairly well equipped, affordable hybrid bikes.

...and, of course, the next step from this, which we are currently getting near*, is the advent of the affordable, reliable, capable e-bike.


* they are still a tad pricey to buy all in one go even if they might work out cheaper than say a couple of year's rail fair over all.

Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Posted: 17 Oct 2020, 1:19pm
by thelawnet
Si wrote:...and, of course, the next step from this, which we are currently getting near*, is the advent of the affordable, reliable, capable e-bike.


* they are still a tad pricey to buy all in one go even if they might work out cheaper than say a couple of year's rail fair over all.


hmm.

I saw bikes like this in Vietnam quite a lot

https://www.selis.co.id/e-bicycle/selis-mandalika/

the price around £250. The drawbacks seem to be the use of a lead acid battery, which is heavy.

This one has a li-ion battery instead for about the same price

https://www.selis.co.id/e-sport/selis-ioi/

I wouldn't be surprised if they use re-cycled laptop batteries, which are quite popular.

The big issue with 'buying all in one go' is that it's not as satisfactory to retrofit motors onto a bike (although I realise that you might be referring to credit).

Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Posted: 17 Oct 2020, 3:24pm
by Sid Aluminium
thelawnet wrote:I wouldn't want to tour very far with a £170 cassette...


SRAM Eagle, $100 USD. Has the exchange rate become that bad? :D

I'd be a bit concerned about the availability of spare parts for some exotic freehub as well.


Shimano XT.

I imagine the next step will be a 9t cassette for 1x


Alex Moulton, 1983.

Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Posted: 17 Oct 2020, 3:40pm
by Sid Aluminium
Stradageek wrote:In the 'Never Bettered' category, the SA AW3 IGH


My AW 'Patent' (no date code on hub; Hadland indicates this was manufactured during the war) has some renewed parts, but still does the same task as new. The RS-RF3, SRF3, SG-3R40, SG-3D55 and iMotion3 are no better.

Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Posted: 17 Oct 2020, 4:04pm
by Sid Aluminium
Stradageek wrote:But above all the enormous range of recumbent bikes now available - I have one for every purpose


Availability being the keyword; recumbents have been with us since the beginning. I'm not a recumbent specialist historian, these are just the dates on the pictures from the literature.

Tadpole recumbent trike, 1874:
edinburgh 1874.png
edinburgh 1874.png (69.77 KiB) Viewed 259 times


A high racer, 1896:
highracer 1896.png


Long wheelbase, 1902:
US patent 1902.png


Mid wheelbase, 1932:
velocar early-1930s.png
velocar early-1930s.png (181.14 KiB) Viewed 259 times


Low racer, also 1930s:
low racer 1930s.png

Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Posted: 17 Oct 2020, 4:51pm
by Brucey
Si wrote: ...Nowadays no ordinary person (as opposed to "keen cyclist") needs to swivel their drop bars upside down so that their back doesn't break, or ride everywhere at a cadence of 20 revs per minute, or get off and push up slight rises, etc because we have these wonderful lightweight, fairly well equipped, affordable hybrid bikes....


yer average hybrid weighs about 15kg and whilst it might have lots of gears they either don't work or won't work if the 'ordinary person' rider can't figure them out.

A basic Raleigh three speed can be fitted with a larger sprocket so that it will go up hills, won't confuse any 'ordinary person' and weighs about the same. Net progress in the last 60+ years seems slight to me.

cheers

Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Posted: 17 Oct 2020, 5:05pm
by irc
The pinnacle in affordable hybrids was reached IMO 20 odd years ago with the Edinburgh Bicycles Courier.

1*8 gearing Dirt cheap. Reliable. Relatively light weight. A big enough gear range to commute in a hilly city.

Never as popular as they deserved. People perhaps thinking more gears was better.

Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Posted: 17 Oct 2020, 7:11pm
by Si
Brucey wrote:.

A basic Raleigh three speed can be fitted with a larger sprocket so that it will go up hills, won't confuse any 'ordinary person' and weighs about the same. Net progress in the last 60+ years seems slight to me.

cheers


Fine for the keen cyclist, but the average person on a bike wants to buy and ride, not to have to learn mechanics and take their brand new bike apart. You might as well say that an old wooden hobby horse is all anyone needs because the buyer just needs to change the odd bit, like the frame, wheels, groupset, contact points etc. Like I said, change in attitude rather than tech

Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Posted: 17 Oct 2020, 9:10pm
by axisofevil
All hex bolts replaced with an allen key that slips and scratches expensive paintwork.

Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Posted: 17 Oct 2020, 9:40pm
by NATURAL ANKLING
Hi,
axisofevil wrote:All hex bolts replaced with an allen key that slips and scratches expensive paintwork.

I am confused, what / which scratches what?

Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Posted: 17 Oct 2020, 9:43pm
by Brucey
Si wrote:
Brucey wrote:.

A basic Raleigh three speed can be fitted with a larger sprocket so that it will go up hills, won't confuse any 'ordinary person' and weighs about the same. Net progress in the last 60+ years seems slight to me.

cheers


Fine for the keen cyclist, but the average person on a bike wants to buy and ride, not to have to learn mechanics and take their brand new bike apart. You might as well say that an old wooden hobby horse is all anyone needs because the buyer just needs to change the odd bit, like the frame, wheels, groupset, contact points etc. Like I said, change in attitude rather than tech


'change in attitude'...? Yes exactly; part of it is that you don't expect to buy the bike in a supermarket and then have to fiddle with it yourself. Any LBS worth their salt would be offering a larger sprocket or a different gearbox etc when you buy the bike.

cheers

Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Posted: 17 Oct 2020, 11:02pm
by Sid Aluminium
The early modern-era promoters of the then-obscure 650B tire all owned tire molds in this size. "The latest must-have! (BTW, I have tyres.)" Now everybody is selling them. Whatever, so long as I can still buy quality 26x1 3/8.


Wing nuts --> quick releases --> through axles (which are sort of like having a wing nut on just one side). I am encouraged that you can at least buy hubs+dodads to allow the wheels to be used on either QR or through axle frames.

Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Posted: 18 Oct 2020, 7:26am
by Sweep
thelawnet wrote:
Shimano haven't yet dared try to fob people off with this stuff - their touring kit is a 48/36/26 chainset and a 11-36 HG cassette , for the equivalent of a 40 X 9-55 chainset.

)

Agree totally with your post. Out of interest, can you provide a link for ths shimano 48/36,/26 set?
Also, tiddly point, isn't that 9 speed casette 12-,36? Ie not an 11 small?

Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Posted: 18 Oct 2020, 9:16am
by thelawnet
Sweep wrote:
thelawnet wrote:
Shimano haven't yet dared try to fob people off with this stuff - their touring kit is a 48/36/26 chainset and a 11-36 HG cassette , for the equivalent of a 40 X 9-55 chainset.

)

Agree totally with your post. Out of interest, can you provide a link for ths shimano 48/36,/26 set?
Also, tiddly point, isn't that 9 speed casette 12-,36? Ie not an 11 small?


'Touring' is currently not on trend, so Shimano don't have an obscene number of such groupsets:

https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/lc/xt_trekking/3x10

They spec 3x10 48/36/26 x 11-36/11-34/11-32 Deore or Deore XT.
Or 3x9 48/36/26 44/34/22 x 11-28/11-32/11-34 Alivio/Acera

Both these are flat bar types.

There are also both 11-36 and 12-36 Shimano 9-speed cassettes.

Assuming drop bars then you can put together whatever 3x9 you like, but these aren't a 'groupset' per se.

Also the 10-speed RDs are now all 'Shadow', with a capacity of 47t at most (so 48/26 x 11-36), whereas the 9-speed ones are rated only for 45t and 11-36t using the 'Shadow' design, or 45t and 11-34t using the 'double servo' design; they have not updated the 9-speed T parts to 'Shadow', but you could use a 9-speed 'Shadow' with a 11-36t but in this case your 'total capacity' is only for a 20t chainset gap, so you'd (per the spec) be better off with 11-34t using one of the 'T' chainsets.

Anyway this former part is more marketing - if you want drop bars Shimano wants to sell you a hideously expensive plastic bike with drop bars and hydraulic disc brakes, whereas if you want, say, a steel frame + drop bars with rim brakes then you can do whatever you like but you'll have to seek out older parts if you want high-quality kit.

Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Posted: 18 Oct 2020, 9:31am
by Stradageek
Sid Aluminium wrote:Availability being the keyword; recumbents have been with us since the beginning. I'm not a recumbent specialist historian, these are just the dates on the pictures from the literature.

Just think where recumbent technology and availability would be now if the UCI hadn't banned them in 1934 just to make sure that their newly sponsored team wouldn't be beaten :x