List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

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Brucey
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Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Postby Brucey » 4 Oct 2020, 12:50pm

it clearly wasn't a popular item but then nor was 'the whippet' itself (being fantastically pricey I think). I have never seen the derailleur in question (which was an option I think), merely informed of its existence. I can only imagine how it might have worked; after all drive chains at that time were not even proper roller chains in most cases, so that they ran at all was a bonus, but throwing one from one sprocket to another seems a bit of a stretch to say the least. Maybe the derailleur itself came after the bike and after the pneumatic tyre, after all?

More here

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Whippet_derailleurs.html

cheers
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speedsixdave
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Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Postby speedsixdave » 4 Oct 2020, 12:54pm

Hub gears are not new, obviously, but I would suggest that:

(1) the range of useful hub gears now is better than it ever has been (although SRAM's destruction of the wonderful Fitchel & Sachs is shameful);
(2) The Rohloff 14-speed hub gear is one of the best things to have happened to the cyclist ever. Sure, it's a lot of money, but the range of gears covers the touring cyclist with reasonable steps, it's pretty much fault-free, and it lasts for ever, in reasonable terms. Obviously it could be better (couldn't everything?) but the answer to almost all the gearing-related questions and griping on this forum could easily be 'just get a Rohloff'. This applies especially for 'gravel bike' and '1x gearing' gripes.
Big wheels good, small wheels better.
Two saddles best!

Jdsk
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Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Postby Jdsk » 4 Oct 2020, 12:56pm

You've seen the pictures and the patent?

Screenshot 2020-10-04 at 12.53.46.png

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/UK_Patent_1899_18240_-_Whippet_New_Protean_scan_1.html

Jonathan

Edited: Crossed with your URL appearing. : - )

Brucey
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Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Postby Brucey » 4 Oct 2020, 12:58pm

it is post-invention of pneumatic tyres. Also the 'Gradient' gear predates it, apparently. It is like 'QI' this, every time you look, history is different!

cheers
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cycle tramp
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Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Postby cycle tramp » 4 Oct 2020, 1:10pm

Jdsk wrote:
cycle tramp wrote:...so when a customer like myself walks in to find that they don't have a part (5 speed screw on freewheel) but can get it next week (due to the parts supplier contract that they've signed) the bicycle shop has already lost out to someone like Amazon* who can supply it cheaper and get me the new part next day...
No wonder there's not too many bicycle shops left.

Why can't that small bike shop get parts as quickly as you?

I've put that whole logistics system as one of the big modern improvements.

Jonathan

PS: But it does mean that they need a whole new business model. That's not inherently either good or bad.


Many bike shops are tied to one or if they're lucky two or three suppliers - which may give them some financial gains (such as an ability to buy parts which are restricted to other markets or to buy parts on credit or at a lower cost). However such contracts often mean that the bike shop cannot source the same or similar parts from other suppliers (like Amazon, or whomever) and often the logistics are that the supplier which the bike shop has signed to may only do a weekly delivery (which is carried out at the same time the shop restock- to ask a supplier to do any more than that may come with financial burdens, simply because each 'transaction' is going to cost the supplier time and therefore money. Cashflow is the life blood of any on street shop - and none can afford tying it up in too much stock, especially when the demand for whatever product is unknown..
....ages ago, bike shops could invest in stock like freewheels in the knowledge that there was a market, if not this year then next year... now given the pace of latest releases from the likes of shimano they're having to think twice about stocking too many bottom brackets..
...so they'll stock the really bread and butter stuff; pedals, tyres, cables, grips, lights, clothing, some brake blocks, some chains and perhaps if your lucky some disc brake pads... the days when you could seriously mess up your transmission, while on tour push your bike into the nearest town's bike shop and get it repaired and be on your way in four hours is over... compare that to how it was in the 70's or 80's, when if the shop didn't have your ideal choice they would at least have something to get you rolling. It's not the variance of bike parts which are the issue - its the fact that the bike parts are specifically designed only to work with other parts from the same manufacturer...
..if I was running a bike shop.. the first thing I'd invest in is a decent 3d printer and a milling machine..

Jdsk
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Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Postby Jdsk » 4 Oct 2020, 1:13pm

Thanks

Jonathan

thelawnet
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Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Postby thelawnet » 4 Oct 2020, 1:22pm

Jdsk wrote:
cycle tramp wrote:...so when a customer like myself walks in to find that they don't have a part (5 speed screw on freewheel) but can get it next week (due to the parts supplier contract that they've signed) the bicycle shop has already lost out to someone like Amazon* who can supply it cheaper and get me the new part next day...
No wonder there's not too many bicycle shops left.

Why can't that small bike shop get parts as quickly as you?

I've put that whole logistics system as one of the big modern improvements.

Jonathan

PS: But it does mean that they need a whole new business model. That's not inherently either good or bad.


The problem with the 'local bike shop' is if you take in let's say your bike with a FSA chainset, and it needs a new BB, they are fully liable to say 'we can't get that BB', and try and sell you a new Shimano chainset & BB. You could probably source your own but they won't try very hard

This tends to work well as they just throw everything away, but it makes servicing often expensive, particularly on cheaper bikes which often come with such parts in the first place.

freeflow
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Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Postby freeflow » 4 Oct 2020, 1:54pm

speedsixdave wrote:Hub gears are not new, obviously, but I would suggest that:
(2) The Rohloff 14-speed hub gear is one of the best things to have happened to the cyclist ever. Sure, it's a lot of money, but the range of gears covers the touring cyclist with reasonable steps, it's pretty much fault-free, and it lasts for ever, in reasonable terms. Obviously it could be better (couldn't everything?) but the answer to almost all the gearing-related questions and griping on this forum could easily be 'just get a Rohloff'. This applies especially for 'gravel bike' and '1x gearing' gripes.


Pinion p1.18 is probably better as it gives greater gear range, sealed gears and allows easy changing of wheels for those who wish such a facility. There is a small weight penalty but the plusses greatly outweight that.

Not available as an upgrade though, at least not without lots of hacksawing and other footling.

irc
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Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Postby irc » 4 Oct 2020, 3:14pm

I must be near alone in liking 1x gears. Along with increased numbers on the cassette it means my 1x9 commuter has more useful gears than my 70s 10 speed tourer. With it's 52 chainset and 14-28 casette it had 7 useful gears discounting duplicates and a top gear that was too high.

Obviously for some uses like touring 1x is not up to the job but I think it has been held back by few novice cyclists appreciating the. Edinburgh Bicycles produced 1x commuters for years which worked very well. For that market 1x is lighter, cheasper, and has less to go wrong.

THe other big inprovement for me is LEDs. Not just for cycling. The only time I was every involuntarily benighted on a mountain was back in the 80s when my torch went flat. A LED headtorch costing £10 upwards these days would have got me off the hill and saved a damp night in a big orange plastic bag. Another thing banished to the past since Goretex and other modern fabrics.

Bmblbzzz
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Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Postby Bmblbzzz » 4 Oct 2020, 3:15pm

For me the best cycling developments - I think that's a more appropriate word than innovation here - of the 21st century are LED lighting and better rolling, more puncture resistant tyres. In third place I'd nominate the near demise (in rich world markets) of the chromed steel rim.

nirakaro
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Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Postby nirakaro » 4 Oct 2020, 3:55pm

Oh how I miss cotter pins!

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speedsixdave
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Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Postby speedsixdave » 4 Oct 2020, 4:48pm

freeflow wrote:Pinion p1.18 is probably better as it gives greater gear range, sealed gears and allows easy changing of wheels for those who wish such a facility. There is a small weight penalty but the plusses greatly outweight that.

Not available as an upgrade though, at least not without lots of hacksawing and other footling.


Agree that the Pinion is an attractive thing with some definite advantages over the Rohloff, but some disadvantages too, and one notch further removed from 'normality'. But I'd definitely like one on a Moulton, with all the weight suspended low in the centre of frame rather than unsuspended in the rear hub. But this is another genuine innovation by the cycling (cottage) industry and should indeed be celebrated as a Good Thing.
Big wheels good, small wheels better.

Two saddles best!

freeflow
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Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Postby freeflow » 4 Oct 2020, 5:01pm

speedsixdave wrote:
freeflow wrote: But this is another genuine innovation by the cycling (cottage) industry and should indeed be celebrated as a Good Thing.


Perhaps the next innovation should be frames with interchangeable bottom brackets so that you could choose the bottom bracket you'd prefer, including pinion or electric.

Bmblbzzz
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Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Postby Bmblbzzz » 4 Oct 2020, 5:12pm

freeflow wrote:
speedsixdave wrote:
freeflow wrote: But this is another genuine innovation by the cycling (cottage) industry and should indeed be celebrated as a Good Thing.


Perhaps the next innovation should be frames with interchangeable bottom brackets so that you could choose the bottom bracket you'd prefer, including pinion or electric.

That strikes me as a genuinely useful idea. We already have frames with interchangeable drop outs so it's not a huge step conceptually -- though the implementation might be rather more difficult. It might perhaps be easiest (least difficult) to put into practice by returning the bottom bracket to being an actual bracket beneath the frame rather than part of the frame as it has been for the last hundred years or so.

rogerzilla
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Re: List of recent 'innovations' of the cycling industry

Postby rogerzilla » 4 Oct 2020, 5:40pm

nirakaro wrote:Oh how I miss cotter pins!

You sick, sick puppy :lol: