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Re: New £13k Specialized audax bike

Posted: 10 Oct 2020, 10:15am
by Audax67
A chum won a bike like this at the end of an Étape du Tour years ago. It would have cost around 9000 euros back then, so probably close to £13k now. We saw it once, the week after he won it, and never again.

"No, it's at home," he told us. "I was scared stiff of damaging it on that first ride and haven't dared take it out since."

Re: New £13k Specialized audax bike

Posted: 10 Oct 2020, 12:07pm
by Bonzo Banana
Audax67 wrote:A chum won a bike like this at the end of an Étape du Tour years ago. It would have cost around 9000 euros back then, so probably close to £13k now. We saw it once, the week after he won it, and never again.
.
"No, it's at home," he told us. "I was scared stiff of damaging it on that first ride and haven't dared take it out since."


He should have sold it as soon as he got it to get the maximum amount. I know some people who have high end bikes only use them riding a loop from their home, i.e. sunday ride bikes. They don't do group rides etc they just enjoy them when they are riding a very safe route. Actually in fairness I don't think the bikes are anywhere near that level perhaps around £2,500 or more which is still a substantial purchase to be stolen or damaged. Obviously the higher your disposable income i guess the more bearable such a loss would be but it depends on the viewpoint of the owner. Some well-off people can still be tight-wads who resent wasting money more than poorer people.

Re: New £13k Specialized audax bike

Posted: 10 Oct 2020, 5:57pm
by The utility cyclist
Bonzo Banana wrote:The gains on expensive bikes are so ridiculously marginal and the risk of theft is super high and the cost of maintaining them is super high. Ultimately a slightly fitter rider on a low end Claris road bike will beat a less fit rider on a top end £13k bike. You buy a Ferrari car you get a Ferrari engine you don't fit it with a 50cc moped engine in it which can be the case when a rich less fit middle age man splashes out on a high end bike.

It's all marketing nonsense anyway, Specialized import such bikes from the far east to promote their engineering status plus they sponsor events so that the Specialized brand is desired. I don't think Specialized has really made anything themselves, I'm pretty sure even their early bikes were imported from Japan. You can see Specialized mountain bikes being made in a recent fuji-ta video. The same factory is used for many low end brands. I've got a cheap Muddyfox sports direct road bike that came from the same factory, no doubt it hasn't got the butted tubes of the Specialized entry level road bikes that are made there but they will be manufactured by the same people to the same overall quality, only the components will vary and my cheap Muddyfox bikes sports a decent freehub/Claris drivetrain with brifters and dual pivot brakes, it's probably just a kg heavier than the entry level Specialized road bike because of a lack of frame tube butting.

You can see the same Muddyfox model of bike as mine up against a high end carbon fibre Boardman bike here. Also the Muddyfox bike only has a 12-25 cassette so bear that in mind when you see the results. I'm sure a 11-32T cassette would have made a significant difference to the results.

Ultimately its a silly money purchase in line with a gold plated McClaren. You'd have to be an amazing cyclist for the tiny gains to make sense and such bikes sell in ridiculously low numbers, probably 10,000 entry level Specialized bikes are sold for every one of these.

I think the chances of lower end bikes are more susceptible to being stolen in all honesty.
Cost of maintaining isn't very high - what's with using the word 'super'?? My own Dura Ace shifters haven't missed a beat in 5 years, carbon cranks still bob on as are all the carbon components including carbon rail saddle. The high end Enduro BB has lasted same, only big ring, chain, brake pads, bar tape have been replaced. Even the rear tubular is still going okay, I've done about 10,000 miles on it.
Some people report having 50,000 miles on their Dura Ace 7900 shifters.

I think people who don't buy high end have little idea as to running costs, sure if you do a lot of miles it's going to cost more but very high costs only occur if you damage your bike and/or components

It's nothing like a gold plated Mclaren and it isn't a silly money purchase, only people making comments like that are 'silly' :roll:

Re: New £13k Specialized audax bike

Posted: 10 Oct 2020, 6:11pm
by pwa
The utility cyclist wrote:
..........It's nothing like a gold plated Mclaren and it isn't a silly money purchase, only people making comments like that are 'silly' :roll:

But why pay that much when a bike costing half of that would do the job just as well? Or do you think it wouldn't? I don't object to people spending that much. I simply don't see the point.

Re: New £13k Specialized audax bike

Posted: 10 Oct 2020, 6:39pm
by rareposter
pwa wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
..........It's nothing like a gold plated Mclaren and it isn't a silly money purchase, only people making comments like that are 'silly' :roll:

But why pay that much when a bike costing half of that would do the job just as well? Or do you think it wouldn't? I don't object to people spending that much. I simply don't see the point.


The USP of the bike is that it's the lightest production disc brake bike in the world.
Something half the price won't be half as good, in fact it'll probably be 99% as good - but it won't be the lightest production disc brake bike in the world!

Trek did similar with their ultralight race bike a few years ago, same USP.

And what you're paying for on this is a very significant chunk of R&D.

In 5 years time there'll be another bike that's lighter again.

I have to say though, I find some of the judgemental comments and assumptions very out of order. If someone wants to buy one and ride it in an audax, what has it got to do with anyone on here?! Credit to Specialized for the R&D and for pushing the boundaries. And if someone wants to buy one, it's supporting the cycle trade so all good surely?

Re: New £13k Specialized audax bike

Posted: 10 Oct 2020, 6:41pm
by Marcus Aurelius
rareposter wrote:
And what you're paying for on this is a very significant chunk of R&D.

.


It’s the marketing that puts the most on it.

Re: New £13k Specialized audax bike

Posted: 10 Oct 2020, 6:45pm
by Marcus Aurelius
pwa wrote:But why pay that much when a bike costing half of that would do the job just as well? Or do you think it wouldn't? I don't object to people spending that much. I simply don't see the point.


Until you’ve actually ridden a bike like this, and one costing half as much, you would find it difficult to understand how different the pricey one is. The difference is actually night and day, because of the spec of the bits that make it so pricey. A lot of little pricey bits, makes a huge difference.

Re: New £13k Specialized audax bike

Posted: 10 Oct 2020, 6:47pm
by thelawnet
rareposter wrote:
pwa wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
..........It's nothing like a gold plated Mclaren and it isn't a silly money purchase, only people making comments like that are 'silly' :roll:

But why pay that much when a bike costing half of that would do the job just as well? Or do you think it wouldn't? I don't object to people spending that much. I simply don't see the point.


The USP of the bike is that it's the lightest production disc brake bike in the world.
Something half the price won't be half as good, in fact it'll probably be 99% as good - but it won't be the lightest production disc brake bike in the world!

Trek did similar with their ultralight race bike a few years ago, same USP.

And what you're paying for on this is a very significant chunk of R&D.


Hmm.

The headline weight depends on having the lightweight £2250 paint job, and that will depend on frame size and what not .

It does seem to be about 20 grams lighter in standard spec than Canyon's similar frame.

Which counts if you're counting I suppose !?

Re: New £13k Specialized audax bike

Posted: 10 Oct 2020, 8:38pm
by pwa
Marcus Aurelius wrote:
pwa wrote:But why pay that much when a bike costing half of that would do the job just as well? Or do you think it wouldn't? I don't object to people spending that much. I simply don't see the point.


Until you’ve actually ridden a bike like this, and one costing half as much, you would find it difficult to understand how different the pricey one is. The difference is actually night and day, because of the spec of the bits that make it so pricey. A lot of little pricey bits, makes a huge difference.

Perhaps it isn't to be judged as an Audax bike. Spesh don't claim that. Audax means leaving it propped against a wall out of sight from the cafe you are going into because all the other bikes have taken the top spots. Audax means the risk of someone knocking your bike over as they try to dig theirs out. And Audax means coming off on black ice on a narrow lane near Gloucester at 9 in the morning, then getting up and continuing as if nothing had happened. I'd not pick a particularly thin walled (egg shell) bike for that. I don't think that bike is especially suited to Audax at all. To get to the lowest weight they can get to Specialized must have whittled it down to the minimum of material they think they can get away with. I'd not want to be on a bike designed with that mindset. I wouldn't pay £1000 for a bike designed with minimal weight as the brief.

No doubt others will want it, but it isn't for me. And not just because of the price.

Re: New £13k Specialized audax bike

Posted: 10 Oct 2020, 9:30pm
by speedsixdave
Clearly much of the attraction of a £13000 bike is the fact that it costs £13000, and the justification for this massive cost is the measurable fact that it is apparently the world's something something something. For a manufacturer there's a lot of sense in making their most expensive bike one that can be happily ridden by fat, inflexible fifty-year-olds, because they can both afford to buy it and be able to enjoy riding it. Anyone with enough cash can buy a 'proper' Tour de France bike just like Sam Bennett's, but not everyone can ride a hundred miles on it, two or three days on the trot.

When I was 17 I was really flippin' fit and pretty flexible, and could have done justice to a TdF-quality bike, but of course I couldn't afford one in my wildest dreams. Now I am 47 I could afford to buy a TdF-quality bike if I so chose, but I couldn't do justice to it and I can't really get that low and long any more. But I could ride this, and although £13000 is a lot of money for a bike, lots and lots of people would easily spend that on a car and consider it a low price, and £13000 buys nothing of any interest in a new car. And I've primarily defined myself as a bikie for 34 years now, so I'll take no lectures from anyone telling me I don't deserve to ride an expensive bike for any reason.

On the other hand, if I did decide to spend £13000 on a bike, I can't think of anything more boring to buy than a carbon-fibre Specialized, except perhaps a carbon-fibre Trek. I accept that both manufacturers probably do lots of expensive R&D and probably make excellent bikes, but neither have any emotional resonance for me and that certainly comes into play at that sort of cost. A top-of-the-range Cinelli Laser or Tommasini Tecno? Possibly. One of Laurent Fignon's 1989 or Hennie Kuiper's 1978 actual TdF Raleighs, crafted by GoD's own Nottinghamshire artisans? Now you're talking. A 2020 Moulton Single Pylon or 1968 Moulton S Speed? Don't tempt me! A custom Mercian, made half-an-hour's ride from my house after a long conversation with the builder to discuss my specific requirements? Perhaps so. Even a titanium Litespeed, hand-welded by a moustachioed Chatanoogan under a sweltering Tennessee sun. But a plastic Specialized, mass-produced in a factory in China, that will be worth nothing in ten years' time? Thanks, but no thanks.

Re: New £13k Specialized audax bike

Posted: 10 Oct 2020, 9:55pm
by cycle tramp
Marcus Aurelius wrote:
pwa wrote:But why pay that much when a bike costing half of that would do the job just as well? Or do you think it wouldn't? I don't object to people spending that much. I simply don't see the point.


Until you’ve actually ridden a bike like this, and one costing half as much, you would find it difficult to understand how different the pricey one is. The difference is actually night and day, because of the spec of the bits that make it so pricey. A lot of little pricey bits, makes a huge difference.


..Wow...
Hey, can I sell you some genuine 100% magic beans?
No, ok...
What about a goose that can lay a golden egg? ;-)

Re: New £13k Specialized audax bike

Posted: 10 Oct 2020, 10:44pm
by The utility cyclist
speedsixdave wrote:Clearly much of the attraction of a £13000 bike is the fact that it costs £13000,[ and the justification for this massive cost is the measurable fact that it is apparently the world's something something something .

Go on, prove that, clearly you can't, yet again someone failing to grasp why someone might buy a bike costing that much, which BTW is nowhere the most expensive bike you can buy, not even close!

Re: New £13k Specialized audax bike

Posted: 10 Oct 2020, 10:46pm
by The utility cyclist
cycle tramp wrote:
Marcus Aurelius wrote:
pwa wrote:But why pay that much when a bike costing half of that would do the job just as well? Or do you think it wouldn't? I don't object to people spending that much. I simply don't see the point.


Until you’ve actually ridden a bike like this, and one costing half as much, you would find it difficult to understand how different the pricey one is. The difference is actually night and day, because of the spec of the bits that make it so pricey. A lot of little pricey bits, makes a huge difference.


..Wow...
Hey, can I sell you some genuine 100% magic beans?
No, ok...
What about a goose that can lay a golden egg? ;-)

So you don't have any experience of high end bikes so go with the stupid comments, how very typical of some forummers. Things they don't understand or have zero experience of and go in just to make troll comments to antagonise and insult. :twisted:

Re: New £13k Specialized audax bike

Posted: 10 Oct 2020, 11:07pm
by Brucey
cycle tramp wrote:..Wow...
Hey, can I sell you some genuine 100% magic beans?
No, ok...
What about a goose that can lay a golden egg? ;-)


it is too late for some people; they have bought the beans, the goose eggs, made a golden magic bean omelette, eaten it, and are fast disappearing up some darkened cul-de-sac wondering where it all went....

cheers

Re: New £13k Specialized audax bike

Posted: 11 Oct 2020, 12:11am
by speedsixdave
The utility cyclist wrote:
speedsixdave wrote:Clearly much of the attraction of a £13000 bike is the fact that it costs £13000,[ and the justification for this massive cost is the measurable fact that it is apparently the world's something something something .

Go on, prove that, clearly you can't, yet again someone failing to grasp why someone might buy a bike costing that much, which BTW is nowhere the most expensive bike you can buy, not even close!


Calm down there Ute! But apologies, like Edwina Currie I should have said some of the attraction, rather than much. If you read further you will see that I have absolutely no problem with anyone spending £13000 on a bike, it's peanuts compared to what people spend on cars for fun and status and as we all know, bikes are better than cars in all ways.

And I don't deny it's probably a marvellous bike, it just doesn't do much for me.

And I am into Moultons, so very aware that there are much more expensive bikes than this, I've even ridden a few.

I think my thesis, such as it is, is that at this sort of price you are really buying a dream, a concept, an ideal, a jewel, an objet d'art, and that's fine if you can justify it to yourself and your wife. At its base level a bike is just a tool though and just as we all have an innate idea of how much money we are prepared to spend on a pump or a torque wrench or a corkscrew, we all have an innate feeling about how much we think it's worth spending on a bike. My lovely wife thinks the amount I spend on bikes is ridiculous, because a bike is a bike, but I'm already slowly persuading myself that my next bike will make my life better than it is now. Some people buy their track pumps from Aldi, some people think there's pleasure in the ownership of a £370 Silca pump. They'll both pump up your tyres to the modern 75psi without much issue. Similarly £215 for a Campagnolo corkscrew.

It's all fine, spend your cash on what you want and hopefully it will make you happy, and ideally other people too. I certainly will, because buying (and riding) bikes over a long period of time has made me happy. But, as pwa notes, when you're cold, tired and hungry and there's another 35 brilliant miles to go, the amazingness of your superbike doesn't matter anything like as much as what's in your head and your legs.