gps choices, can someone explain? please!

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jawaka
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gps choices, can someone explain? please!

Postby jawaka » 11 Oct 2020, 11:09am

Having grown up with maps I've eschewed gps. Pro maps: you get a wide view and can see the terrain in context and easily pick out the quiet roads, can see what something in the distance is and I enjoy reading them. Having a lot of map practice I can use the contours to bring out a 3d view . also it doesn't go blank and get confused. cons get wet and fall apart. awkward and frequent stops to check

but pro gps, I assume is not cumbersome like a map and is easy to follow without always stopping to read the map, but expensive, limited view and how accurate anyway? Presumable also the problem of rain. Garmins seem more than I want to pay, but i've seen a Lezyne macro plus and a garmin glo2 which seem to suit for price as it will be an addition rather than a map replacement

Technology when it works is great, but it just doesn't work reliably, suddenly things don't work, and it is usually packed with features which are there because they can be put there, not because they are useful. I tried to set up a smart tv for my daughter, but after the initial set-up I wanted to change it but spent ages trying to use menu and one of two back buttons to return to it, but it didn't work, so the best I could do is an aerial. and it comes up with all these terms and I have no idea what these choices are and it doesn't tell you in the handbook. Entering the password with keyboard: Wit a combination of numbers and capitals and means using the buttons and direction arrows over and over again on the keyboard, with mistakes etc. Maybe i'm going senile or just past-it
Sorry, a rant

2 things are in the latest magazine

So I think the Lezyne pairs with the phone so then i must need a phone mount for the handlebars as well as a mount for the unit and what happens if it is raining? and doesn't get rave reviews.

The Garmin glo 2, I've little idea, but it seems to work similarly with a phone or tablet and presumably you then need to carry the Garmin unit somewhere as well, on the handlebars, in a pocket? The picture in the magazine gives no guidance to scale and its size. and I suppose I must need a handlebar mount for the phone and maybe the Garmin unit.
Help much appreciated

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simonineaston
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Re: gps choices, can someone explain? please!

Postby simonineaston » 11 Oct 2020, 12:33pm

As a big fan of paper maps, the single biggest plus for me, to be gained from my GPS, is it sitting there on my 'bars, directly under my nose, come rain or shine (assuming the battery retains sufficient charge...) and it always know exactly where I am, to the meter. No arguement, no discussion, no interpretation, just shows me where I am. I don't much bother with routes, poi.s, gpx downloads, yadda yadda, and I'm sure I'm missing out on a whole host of exciting experiences in so doing, but the simple reassurance of it watching where I'm going is all I need, really - it just means I'm never going to get lost again! :D
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Paulatic
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Re: gps choices, can someone explain? please!

Postby Paulatic » 11 Oct 2020, 12:36pm

Yes the Lezyne pairs with your phone. Needed to send it routes. You don’t need to mount your phone it can be in a bag, pocket, or at home.
Maps are great but stopping, pulling out glasses, checking map and put all away before carrying on can be very tiresome. A gps unit cuts a lot of that out. I’d go the extra pounds and buy the Mega XL it’s useful to see your route on a map.
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mercalia
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Re: gps choices, can someone explain? please!

Postby mercalia » 11 Oct 2020, 1:27pm

gps is useful even in cities. recently I used the one in my phone to help me decide when I left a rail station in London which exit to use the left or the right as I found the map confusing & I didnt know where I was, and the wrong one would have put me on the wrong side of the railway line. I also used it to get me thru a tangle of a wood with lots of pseudo paths to get me to the main track I was trying to get to as it showed me the direction I was going in, plotting my movement. Its also useful when you are riding along country roads where there can be a real tangle of side roads/almost tracks to tell you where you are - no map is useful on its own. By the way my Windows Smartphone which has gps and various types of map option cost me just £20 and has replaceable batteries, so buying it just for the gps is cost effective in my case.

jawaka
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Re: gps choices, can someone explain? please!

Postby jawaka » 11 Oct 2020, 3:27pm

Great thanks. Much the same for others: maps are great up to a point but the gps is great to add in and avoid the stopping to look at the map. I've checked out the Mega XL looks a good choice

Mercalia thanks, will all windows smartphones have GPs?

garygkn
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Re: gps choices, can someone explain? please!

Postby garygkn » 11 Oct 2020, 3:36pm

A smartphone with replaceable batteries is a rarity these days? I need to do some research.

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Re: gps choices, can someone explain? please!

Postby alanesq » 11 Oct 2020, 4:00pm

I find OSMAnd on an Android phone really good when cycling see: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.osmand.plus/
It stores the maps on the phone so no data is required whilst using it and it is completely free :-)

There is an add on to view contour lines if required: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.osm ... ugin.paid/

If you want more control over the suggested routes there is: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/btools.routingapp/

You can get waterproof phone holders which mount on your handlebars on eBay very cheaply and if your phone doesn't have replaceable battery you can always connect it to a power bank if worried about battery life (I also run my lights etc. from one).

mercalia
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Re: gps choices, can someone explain? please!

Postby mercalia » 11 Oct 2020, 4:35pm

jawaka wrote:Great thanks. Much the same for others: maps are great up to a point but the gps is great to add in and avoid the stopping to look at the map. I've checked out the Mega XL looks a good choice

Mercalia thanks, will all windows smartphones have GPs?


I think so. The one I have is a Lumia 640 running Windows 10. in its day was very basic ( They originaly had Windows 8.1 but that store for apps now gone, so one still on Windows 8.1 is just junk) I am not suggesting you buy one ( I have had mine for 2 years now) but its an option if it is mainly maps you are interested in and not as a smartphone eg social media and dont mind punting £20 or so. There is a cheap map app called Cartograph with free offline maps that is useful as well as the in built offline Bing Maps you can download for urban use and apps for openstreet maps & google. The batteries are cheap and I attach any way a powerbank and have the phone attached to my handle bars with the powerbank in the bar bag.

The reason that they are cheap now is Microsoft pulled the support for their phone business early this year so no longer any security patches( not really an issue as they were pretty secure with monthly patches since 2015) ( hardly important for use as a gps device ) and now support Android.

Lumia 640.JPG
Cartograph/Vectorial Maps


Bing maps.JPG
Microsoft maps


open street maps.JPG
google maps


open.JPG
openstreet maps


sygic.JPG
Sygic Maps ( free )
Last edited by mercalia on 11 Oct 2020, 5:06pm, edited 4 times in total.

mercalia
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Re: gps choices, can someone explain? please!

Postby mercalia » 11 Oct 2020, 4:55pm

garygkn wrote:A smartphone with replaceable batteries is a rarity these days? I need to do some research.


Android yes only basic ones, but a cheap Windows phone could be a good cheap gps device rather than as a smartphone ( though it will do the basic smartphone things and more, just not things like social media and netflix). The Lumia 640 with Windows 10 is fine

jimlews
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Re: gps choices, can someone explain? please!

Postby jimlews » 11 Oct 2020, 5:00pm

What's wrong with stopping to read the map? It's one of the joys of cycle touring.

What's the big hurry, anyway? Y'r on tour. And does the GPS tell you what the curious structure across the valley is?

As for maps and rain, there are ways round that, waterproof sprays or plastic lamination.

I freely admit to being a curmudgeonly luddite with a profound dislike of unnecessisary gadgets, none of which are supplied with even half adequate instructions.

Jdsk
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Re: gps choices, can someone explain? please!

Postby Jdsk » 11 Oct 2020, 5:05pm

jimlews wrote:What's wrong with stopping to read the map?

Nothing's wrong with it. Different people like different things.

Not being aware of the advantages and disadvantages of different technological options means that you can't make a rational choice. And many people can't understand those advantages and disadvantages without trying them on the road themselves.

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 11 Oct 2020, 6:38pm, edited 2 times in total.

garygkn
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Re: gps choices, can someone explain? please!

Postby garygkn » 11 Oct 2020, 5:06pm

mercalia wrote:
garygkn wrote:A smartphone with replaceable batteries is a rarity these days? I need to do some research.


Android yes only basic ones, but a cheap Windows phone could be a good cheap gps device rather than as a smartphone ( though it will do the basic smartphone things and more, just not things like social media and netflix). The Lumia 640 with Windows 10 is fine



Thank you I was thinking the same thing.

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simonineaston
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Re: gps choices, can someone explain? please!

Postby simonineaston » 11 Oct 2020, 5:13pm

avoid the stopping to look at the map.
Well, you are looking at the map, just in a different way to what you're used to...
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thelawnet
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Re: gps choices, can someone explain? please!

Postby thelawnet » 11 Oct 2020, 5:45pm

jawaka wrote:
2 things are in the latest magazine

So I think the Lezyne pairs with the phone so then i must need a phone mount for the handlebars as well as a mount for the unit and what happens if it is raining? and doesn't get rave reviews.

The Garmin glo 2, I've little idea, but it seems to work similarly with a phone or tablet and presumably you then need to carry the Garmin unit somewhere as well, on the handlebars, in a pocket? The picture in the magazine gives no guidance to scale and its size. and I suppose I must need a handlebar mount for the phone and maybe the Garmin unit.
Help much appreciated



I am not really sure which magazine you are referring to.

The Glo 2 is essentially a product that no longer should exist.

I had a basic computer in the early 90s. Some of the things that were missing from it were a mouse, which I added, and the ability to display more than 256 different colours. I added a cheap card (about £50 in 1995) which added that functionality and a mouse. It also lacked the ability to make more than buzzing noises, but I never added a sound card that could make it more melodious.

Nowadays of course, all such functionality is integrated onto the main circuit board/processor of a computer, and there's no need to buy any extras, and the cost of, say a high-quality sound chip (integrated at source) is about $1 or whatever from China.

Now as far as the Glo 2 goes, I had a similar device about 2005, because at the time mobile phones were in a similar era lacking GPS functionality.

Now if you buy any smart phone it will have for certain GPS, however there are various other things that work in a similar way, and which can be a boon in certain scenarios; for example, if one were hiking in a remote location, 'GPS' is not as good as having GPS plus other related technologies, in that there are multiple different satellite systems, which could help find you, so why not have them all.

Anyway, the Garmin has both GPS and the Russian version Glonass, which is not particularly impressive these days as lots of phones will have this.

Also it seems to be an old design which they've only updated with a new battery. So some phones will have superior GPS capabilities, e.g., using the EU 'Galileo' system or the Chinese 'Beidou'.

So you don't need that really, unless you are in central London or something, in which case GPS can be a bit dodgy because of the tall buildings and you might want 'dual frequency' devices such as the Glo 2, which can pinpoint you more accurately.

But largely you can ignore such things and just use any phone.

A phone that's quite reasonable is about £100, and £200 is a better budget really. They do go up to £1000, but the returns diminish very sharply, most of the budget going towards camera.

The advantage of a separate GPS-only device with screen is a bit scant IMO, as internally these things tend to get closer to being phones as time goes on, and the battery life of phones increases over time, so advantages for pure navigation are largely gone, and for navigation really the best bet today is a phone on your handlebars.


If you have a phone already then you might need only install the relevant app?