Campag gears and Shimano hubs.

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pq
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Campag gears and Shimano hubs.

Postby pq » 24 Oct 2020, 8:59pm

I have a 10 speed Campag Racing Triple set-up on one of my bikes with a Shimano pattern rear hub. It's all working fine with a Mavic M10 cassette and a Marchisio dished 1st 30T sprocket. I want to fit a 32 or 34, partly to lower the gear and partly because the cassette has rather uneven jumps. I'll have to fit one of those derailleur hanger extenders to make this work, but that's fine.

My problem is the new sprocket. The Marchisio I have is dished so that it overhangs the casssette body a little - without that dish, I won't get all the sprockets on the hub. All the spare sprockets I have aren't dished, and Marchisio never made a dished one bigger than 30T. Does anyone have any thoughts about this? Are 11 speed Shimano sprockets dished for example?

Thanks!
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Brucey
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Re: Campag gears and Shimano hubs.

Postby Brucey » 24 Oct 2020, 9:07pm

shimano 10s and 11s HG #1 sprockets are indeed dished (by different amounts). However most shimano 10s and 11s cassettes are built with the largest sprockets in a cluster which cannot be respaced. However some 10s cassettes (eg for tiagra 10s) are made with loose sprockets so may offer a route forwards.

The other route is to see if another maker (eg Miche or sunrace) do a suitable sprocket for you.

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/products/miche-11-speed-for-shimano-individual-cassette-sprockets

appears to offer dished 32, 34 T sprockets but only in aluminium.

IIRC you are probably better off with a (more dished) 11s #1 sprocket if you are building the cassette up with campag 10s spacing.

cheers
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pq
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Re: Campag gears and Shimano hubs.

Postby pq » 24 Oct 2020, 9:12pm

Thanks Brucey, that answers my question exactly. I was looking at those very sprockets and wondering if they are dished or not. Never having used Shimano beyond 9 speed (I prefer Campag) I simply didn't know.

:-)
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pq
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Re: Campag gears and Shimano hubs.

Postby pq » 24 Oct 2020, 9:14pm

Oh and I'l, take your advice and get 11 speed. I don't mind an alu big sprocket - it's not a bike I ride every day.
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Brucey
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Re: Campag gears and Shimano hubs.

Postby Brucey » 24 Oct 2020, 9:19pm

Miche offer exactly what you are after; campag 10s spacing on a shimano HG style body. IIRC the same sprockets are largely used more or less (in shimano/campag-spaced/10s/11s) just with different spacers to suit each indexing system. However the miche 10s sprockets sold by CC only go to 30T. In theory the spacing 1-2 in an 11s cassette will be 'wrong' but in reality a 0.1mm shim will address any clearance issue and the indexing in gear 1 is set by the stop screw in the mech anyway. if you are just getting a first (from the left, not as Miche have it) position sprocket you should get the spacer that goes with it and be prepared to make it slightly thicker if necessary.

[BTW If you are prepared to make your own non-standard spacers as needed, you can even make a campag 10s shifter work with a shimano 11s 'road' rear mech, a 10s shimano cassette and match the cassette *perfectly*. It'll work 'as is' but is reliant on overshift etc to do so; without respacing there are errors of about 1mm in places.]

cheers
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Valbrona
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Re: Campag gears and Shimano hubs.

Postby Valbrona » 25 Oct 2020, 1:02am

Buy a new Mavic freehub body that takes a Campagnolo cassette, and fit an IRD Campagnolo 10 cassette which is available with 34t largest sprocket.

Cassette is expensive, but SH Mavic freehub bodies in Campag format cheap as chips - most people switch the other way.

More ways than one to skin a squirrel, as I think they say in China.

PS When I ran a 34t IRD Campag 10 cassette on my bike, I didn't find I needed one of those extenders. Depends on the bike ...
I should coco.

pq
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Re: Campag gears and Shimano hubs.

Postby pq » 25 Oct 2020, 6:05pm

Brucey, those Miche sprockets go up to 32, it's just that CC don't have any. I'm not too worried about spacing, the M10 I'm using has the correct spacers for the whole cassette, and whatever I'm using between 1 and 2 must be OK becasue it shifts perfectly - it should be a straight swap and if not, a bit of tinkering with the zillions of spacers I have should sort things out.

Valbrona, I've looked at IRD and there are a whole load of problems with that. They don't have any cassettes with the ratios I want, and although they could do me a custom one, they won't. Also, my hub is shimano pattern, not shimano. It's actually a very old Mavic MTB hub, very nice kit but no way will I ever find a campag cassette body for it. A 32T Miche will solve the problem, give me exactly the ratios I want and be cheap, so I'm not inclined to spend that much - especially as I have several M10 cassettes already which do the job. Finally I'm unconvinced a 34 will work even with an extender, my mech is in trouble on a 30, really 29 is the most it can manage, apparently with an extender, 32 is safe, 34 not. But thanks for the suggestion.
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slowster
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Re: Campag gears and Shimano hubs.

Postby slowster » 25 Oct 2020, 6:24pm

pq wrote:I want to fit a 32 or 34, partly to lower the gear and partly because the cassette has rather uneven jumps.

You are curently trying to address two separate issues (lower bottom gear and uneven jumps) by just changing the cassette, but as you have found getting the cassette with the sprockets you want is difficult.

Have you considered fitting a smaller inner chainring? If you can fit a smaller ring to provide the lower bottom gear, you can presumably then choose a cassette just on the criteria of better tooth spacing, and I suspect you will have a wider and more easily available choice of suitable cassettes/ratios.

pq
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Re: Campag gears and Shimano hubs.

Postby pq » 25 Oct 2020, 7:17pm

The uneven jumps are caused by replacing the original biggest sprocket with a bigger one. If I use a 32 I can put the original biggest sprocket in 2nd position, loose the smallest and have well spaced gears.

Yes, I have thought about using a smaller chainring, in fact I have one to fit, but don't want to because of the Campag triple up front. I'm stuck with a 39 middle - so if I put the smallest inner which will fit (a 24), the jump would be too big. A bigger cassette will also lower all the gears which will make them more usable and reduce the number of double changes I have to make.
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hamster
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Re: Campag gears and Shimano hubs.

Postby hamster » 26 Oct 2020, 1:49pm

I've run 24/39/48 on a Campag triple - it's not too appalling a gap. In fact I now run 24/38/47 on my main touring bike. The small difference between mid and large rings gives much better shifting from mid to large.

De Sisti
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Re: Campag gears and Shimano hubs.

Postby De Sisti » 26 Oct 2020, 2:25pm

* Campag levers 10s levers and derailleurs, Shimano 9s hubs and cassettes.
* Spa Chainsets: 24/33/44..........26/34/46..........26/34/46
* Cassettes: 13/14/15/17/19/21/24/27/30

All works fine.

pq
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Re: Campag gears and Shimano hubs.

Postby pq » 26 Oct 2020, 4:57pm

Hamster, thanks, but I'm not keen on the current jump from 39 to 26. I'll see how it goes with a 32 at the back, then if necessary, think again...

De Sisti, yes, I have no doubt that would work fine, but involves spending quite a bit more money...
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fredN4
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Re: Campag gears and Shimano hubs.

Postby fredN4 » 26 Oct 2020, 7:00pm

I put a 26 inner on my 9 speed campag triple (for the reason of wanting to get up Le Ventoux easier). Largest rear sprocket is 28. Works fine for this old gent.

pq
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Re: Campag gears and Shimano hubs.

Postby pq » 28 Oct 2020, 6:55pm

I'm not a great climber, like to spin, live near the Pyrenees and the bike gets used for loaded touring. All that adds up to needing quite a low gear....
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pq
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Re: Campag gears and Shimano hubs.

Postby pq » 13 Nov 2020, 5:26pm

Just to follow up on this....

I ordered an 11 speed Miche 32T sprocket and a derailleur hanger extender. They arrived this morning and I fitted them.

While I was at it I bought another 32T sprocket + derailleur extender for my Campag throughout road bike. (2000 record groupset)

I'm limited to the testing I can do because I'm in France and our lockdown is rather severe - I can only go out for an hour and have to stay within 1km of home. I took the road bike out this morning, rode up some big hills and it worked superbly. The tourer only got tested in the stand. It all works, but not as well as the road bike. The top jockey wheel is a long way from the sprocket, so the shifting isn't as crisp as it was but everything worked. I'm not sure why there's such a difference between the two bikes, they both have 10 speed campag groupsets, the tourer has a racing triple, the road bike a record with a longer cage fitted to the rear mech.

It's certainly an economical way to put lower gears on a bike with a vintage groupset which can't accommodate big sprockets. The Miche 32T sprockets were quite hard to find, I suspect they're not made any more but were €22 each, come in Campag or Shimano flavour and don't need spacers. The derailleur extenders are Sun Race and were €10 each, half the price of the better known Goat Link.

Thanks to everyone who offered advice on this - a successful project I reckon.
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