Have to stretch to reach brakes

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Jdsk
Posts: 7070
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Have to stretch to reach brakes

Post by Jdsk »

tonich wrote:
Jdsk wrote:How are the hand positions that don't involve the hoods? Is it comfortable on the tops and the drops?

Yeah it's not too bad but stretching to change gears when on top

Thanks. I was trying to think of ways of differentiating a problematic position of the hoods from that of the bars...

Jonathan
Brucey
Posts: 43113
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Have to stretch to reach brakes

Post by Brucey »

IMHO you might be better off with new bars and stem. New bars because the ones you have at the moment have

a) a very long forward reach and
b) a large radius to the bend, and a big angle between the ramps and drops.

The former does not suit modern STIs because the total front to back range of hand positions is larger than you probably need (STIs give you a forward hand position that wasn't usually favoured/comfy with older levers). The latter does not really suit modern STIs for two reasons; firstly by the time they are high enough they are at the wrong angle and second the pull of the levers backwards can be restricted by the bars. Both issues are less marked with more modern handlebar shapes, which typically have a tighter bend, higher up, allowing the ramps to be set flattish whilst the hooks and drops are still at sensible angles too.

BTW I would under few circumstances be enthusiastic about ditching a quill stem for some lash-up with a detachable face plate. Yes you will probably need new bar tape, but (I would say) you will need to move the levers from where they are now in any event. Also taping the bars before you are sure the riding position works for you is presumably something you will now be less likely to do again....?

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
tonich
Posts: 18
Joined: 31 Jan 2018, 6:52pm

Re: Have to stretch to reach brakes

Post by tonich »

Brucey wrote:IMHO you might be better off with new bars and stem. New bars because the ones you have at the moment have

a) a very long forward reach and
b) a large radius to the bend, and a big angle between the ramps and drops.

The former does not suit modern STIs because the total front to back range of hand positions is larger than you probably need (STIs give you a forward hand position that wasn't usually favoured/comfy with older levers). The latter does not really suit modern STIs for two reasons; firstly by the time they are high enough they are at the wrong angle and second the pull of the levers backwards can be restricted by the bars. Both issues are less marked with more modern handlebar shapes, which typically have a tighter bend, higher up, allowing the ramps to be set flattish whilst the hooks and drops are still at sensible angles too.

BTW I would under few circumstances be enthusiastic about ditching a quill stem for some lash-up with a detachable face plate. Yes you will probably need new bar tape, but (I would say) you will need to move the levers from where they are now in any event. Also taping the bars before you are sure the riding position works for you is presumably something you will now be less likely to do again....?

cheers


I get your point. Trouble is the levers can't be moved as the break cables are situated inside the bars and enter at a specific point. Quite advanced for that age of bike. Plus I want to keep the original bars but would sacrifice the stem to get them closer to my riding position.
Cheers for the detailed response
It's appreciated
fredN4
Posts: 70
Joined: 14 Oct 2012, 8:21pm
Location: 30200 France

Re: Have to stretch to reach brakes

Post by fredN4 »

one look at the photo and it is obvious (to me) that the frame/bars/stem set up are way too big for you. And the saddle position is absolutely not ideal. Take the advice; new bars and stem and give your back a break :)
fastpedaller
Posts: 2844
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Have to stretch to reach brakes

Post by fastpedaller »

fredN4 wrote:one look at the photo and it is obvious (to me) that the frame/bars/stem set up are way too big for you. And the saddle position is absolutely not ideal. Take the advice; new bars and stem and give your back a break :)

Maybe I've missed a photo of the OP on his bike? Just a photo of the bike without the rider does not tell us the above. The saddle doesn't look level though - if level is ideal. Other than that there are no visuals to suggest the bike is good or bad for that rider.
Brucey
Posts: 43113
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Have to stretch to reach brakes

Post by Brucey »

tonich wrote: .... Trouble is the levers can't be moved as the break cables are situated inside the bars and enter at a specific point. Quite advanced for that age of bike. Plus I want to keep the original bars but would sacrifice the stem to get them closer to my riding position...


do you like living dangerously? Holes in handlebars were a daft idea that lead to many handlebar breakages BITD and a set of 25+ year old French handlebars (which didn't exactly have a stellar reputation for not breaking before they started drilling holes in them...) is well past retirement age IMHO.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
tonich
Posts: 18
Joined: 31 Jan 2018, 6:52pm

Re: Have to stretch to reach brakes

Post by tonich »

Brucey wrote:
tonich wrote: .... Trouble is the levers can't be moved as the break cables are situated inside the bars and enter at a specific point. Quite advanced for that age of bike. Plus I want to keep the original bars but would sacrifice the stem to get them closer to my riding position...


do you like living dangerously? Holes in handlebars were a daft idea that lead to many handlebar breakages BITD and a set of 25+ year old French handlebars (which didn't exactly have a stellar reputation for not breaking before they started drilling holes in them...) is well past retirement age IMHO.

cheers

WIT?
Are you taking the p***? Just for clarity, I didn't drill any holes and as far as I know, modern handlebars hide cables in a similar way. These were designed and manufactured when the bike was built, which was my point! Up until now, all replies have been courteous and helpful, you clearly enjoy mixing it up. I wonder why?
pwa
Posts: 13940
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Have to stretch to reach brakes

Post by pwa »

tonich wrote:
Brucey wrote:
tonich wrote: .... Trouble is the levers can't be moved as the break cables are situated inside the bars and enter at a specific point. Quite advanced for that age of bike. Plus I want to keep the original bars but would sacrifice the stem to get them closer to my riding position...


do you like living dangerously? Holes in handlebars were a daft idea that lead to many handlebar breakages BITD and a set of 25+ year old French handlebars (which didn't exactly have a stellar reputation for not breaking before they started drilling holes in them...) is well past retirement age IMHO.

cheers

WIT?
Are you taking the p***? Just for clarity, I didn't drill any holes and as far as I know, modern handlebars hide cables in a similar way. These were designed and manufactured when the bike was built, which was my point! Up until now, all replies have been courteous and helpful, you clearly enjoy mixing it up. I wonder why?

There is some genuine concern that designs like that, from some years back, fail (snap) more than bars without holes. And any aluminium alloy handlebar that has been used for many years may have got nearer to the end of its fatigue life (the point at which it snaps) than many of us would be comfortable with. So there is some reason to be concerned there. Bars do snap, and they never do it when the bike is parked safely in the shed, they do it out on the road.

It is, of course, entirely up to you.
tonich
Posts: 18
Joined: 31 Jan 2018, 6:52pm

Re: Have to stretch to reach brakes

Post by tonich »

pwa wrote:
tonich wrote:
Brucey wrote:
do you like living dangerously? Holes in handlebars were a daft idea that lead to many handlebar breakages BITD and a set of 25+ year old French handlebars (which didn't exactly have a stellar reputation for not breaking before they started drilling holes in them...) is well past retirement age IMHO.

cheers

WIT?
Are you taking the p***? Just for clarity, I didn't drill any holes and as far as I know, modern handlebars hide cables in a similar way. These were designed and manufactured when the bike was built, which was my point! Up until now, all replies have been courteous and helpful, you clearly enjoy mixing it up. I wonder why?

There is some genuine concern that designs like that, from some years back, fail (snap) more than bars without holes. And any aluminium alloy handlebar that has been used for many years may have got nearer to the end of its fatigue life (the point at which it snaps) than many of us would be comfortable with. So there is some reason to be concerned there. Bars do snap, and they never do it when the bike is parked safely in the shed, they do it out on the road.

It is, of course, entirely up to you.

Point taken
Apologies for my response
pwa
Posts: 13940
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Have to stretch to reach brakes

Post by pwa »

tonich wrote:Apologies for my response

I can understand you being fond of the bars, and reluctant to embark on unwinding bar tape, removing levers and cables and all that faff. That is a job I don't like either, especially if I've just done it all and have to undo it. But there are more "compact" bars out there that won't make you reach so far forward or down. Just a thought.
zenitb
Posts: 532
Joined: 7 Aug 2018, 9:59pm
Contact:

Re: Have to stretch to reach brakes

Post by zenitb »

This is a classic problem...as CJ says above we all grow older..and its crazy not to set our bikes up to match our less flexible bodies. I have some wide comfy lower drop bars ...also consider an adjustable stem..at least until you establish a comfortable position...?
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slowster
Posts: 2015
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Have to stretch to reach brakes

Post by slowster »

tonich wrote:as far as I know, modern handlebars hide cables in a similar way

They don't. Since at least the 1990s those manufacturers who have catered for aero brake levers have done so by adding a groove in the bar, and a second groove was added by many manufacturers when Campagnolo introduced its Ergolevers which routed the gear cable under the bar tape as well.

Prior to that when handlebars with holes in them for brake cable were being sold, they were considered potentially dangerous even then as I recall because of the greater risk of a failure. Back then a lot of manufacturers were generally less scrupulous about putting dangerous products on the market. I'm with Brucey: there is no way I would use those bars.

Example of bars with double cable grooves:
Image
zenitb
Posts: 532
Joined: 7 Aug 2018, 9:59pm
Contact:

Ugly but effective.....

Post by zenitb »

Ok this would be ugly on your "Pug" but it shows the principle. Now the "drops" are the same height as the top tube I have a comfortable riding position and can cruise along on the drops..

One of the perennial problems here is that we are conditioned to seeing sleek low racing bike setups for fit, flexible 20 year olds as being the norm. I totally reject this of course but I still see many older cyclists "marooned" on "the tops" because they dare not bite the bullet and sort out their bike position. My personal view of course...feel free to differ :-)
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Niallmo
Posts: 20
Joined: 5 Feb 2016, 9:07pm

Re: Have to stretch to reach brakes

Post by Niallmo »

I have lots of experience on this. The Tourney levers are not designed to work with older curved bars like that. It’s that simple. You need modern bars with a flat top section before the curves start. The levers on this are set too low. The start of the hoods should be flat and blue and into the flat section of bar. Ignore the cable holes on the bars, it’s a red herring. As is anything else to do with position. It’s simply the design of the old bars not being compatible with modern STI levers. Wrong profile.
fredN4
Posts: 70
Joined: 14 Oct 2012, 8:21pm
Location: 30200 France

Re: Have to stretch to reach brakes

Post by fredN4 »

fastpedaller wrote:
fredN4 wrote:one look at the photo and it is obvious (to me) that the frame/bars/stem set up are way too big for you. And the saddle position is absolutely not ideal. Take the advice; new bars and stem and give your back a break :)

Maybe I've missed a photo of the OP on his bike? Just a photo of the bike without the rider does not tell us the above. The saddle doesn't look level though - if level is ideal. Other than that there are no visuals to suggest the bike is good or bad for that rider.

that's because you are not as astute as me :)
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