Did we miss the best touring rear hub ever?

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
cycle tramp
Posts: 1072
Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Did we miss the best touring rear hub ever?

Postby cycle tramp » 30 Nov 2020, 9:31pm

Did we just miss the best touring rear hub ever?

Sometime ago DMR - more known for their pedals and BMX parts released a rear hub. It was available in 32 and 36 spoke drilling, disc compatible, and had a freehub.
It also built into a dishless rear wheel. Which meant it was properly strong.
There was a trade-off. Which was you could only fit 6 sprockets onto the freehub. In an age where 9, 10, 11, 12 sprockets are now the norm, 6 speeds seems positively backwards - which is possibly the reason why DMR stopped making it.
However for those who still use double or triple chainsets it's not the biggest set back in the world. Especially when you consider the trade off is a super strong rear wheel capable of almost anything...

... Anyway in the words of a game show host 'let's see what you could have won'

https://www.allterraincycles.co.uk/dmr- ... e-rear-hub

DMR - if you're reading this, it was a great idea, it just needed marketing to more retro-grouches. If you have another try, place an ad with the CTC :-D

bri7800
Posts: 14
Joined: 8 Jun 2019, 1:11pm

Re: Did we miss the best touring rear hub ever?

Postby bri7800 » 30 Nov 2020, 10:13pm


MartinC
Posts: 1909
Joined: 10 May 2007, 6:31pm
Location: Bredon

Re: Did we miss the best touring rear hub ever?

Postby MartinC » 1 Dec 2020, 9:52am

bri7800 wrote:The Hope trials hub is similar.
https://www.hopetech.com/products/hubs/ ... -rear-hub/


Interesting, my knowledge of MTB stuff is limited. Just looked at this couldn't find where it said how wide the freehub was - what the options were for a stripped down cassette. I still have a set of Simplex retrofriction DT levers in the shed that would work fine with one of these!

pwa
Posts: 13900
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Did we miss the best touring rear hub ever?

Postby pwa » 1 Dec 2020, 9:56am

I don't break wheels, or at least not in the last thirty years, so losing three of my nine sprockets would just be a loss of sprockets for no gain.

hamster
Posts: 3786
Joined: 2 Feb 2007, 12:42pm

Re: Did we miss the best touring rear hub ever?

Postby hamster » 1 Dec 2020, 10:14am

I'm not sure it was a true freehub like Shimano with an outboard wheel bearing and the freewheel body rigidly attached to the hub body. Most hubs have a freewheel which rotates on the shaft but with the RHS hub bearing somewhere deep in the hub - as a result the axle is unsupported like a freewheel hub.

Brucey
Posts: 43043
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Did we miss the best touring rear hub ever?

Postby Brucey » 1 Dec 2020, 10:24am

I think it wasn't the type which has intrinsically low axle loading, and that it ran on four cartridge bearings.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

reohn2
Posts: 40711
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Did we miss the best touring rear hub ever?

Postby reohn2 » 1 Dec 2020, 10:33am

I'd agree with the OP if there were widespread problems with the Shimano standard MTB rear hub(there are some others),there isn't and it builds into a very robust rear wheel.
As for a touring standard of 6 sprockets,there's a reason the DMR didnt sell.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Brucey
Posts: 43043
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Did we miss the best touring rear hub ever?

Postby Brucey » 1 Dec 2020, 11:07am

cycle tramp wrote:...It also built into a dishless rear wheel. Which meant it was properly strong....


As a wheel it was strong twice over, because not only was it practically dishless (which you can achieve with quite a few rear hubs if you work at it) but the hubshell had wide-spaced flanges too.

reohn2 wrote:I'd agree with the OP if there were widespread problems with the Shimano standard MTB rear hub(there are some others),there isn't and it builds into a very robust rear wheel....


I see broken wheels every day; most of them are rear wheels and the usual reason they have broken is largely because of the dish/narrow flange spacing.

We live in a crazy world where front wheels almost invariably see smaller service loads and yet are often built more strongly than rear wheels. It is a doubly crazy world because folk that happen not to break wheels say things like "there is no widespread problem" when it is perfectly evident to everyone else there is exactly that.

Strong, stronger, strongest. Dishless wheels more easily make it into the third category; bikes with standard rear hubs don't. I would categorise most OTP bikes with derailleur gears as being fitted with rear wheels that are 'simply not strong enough'.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

hamster
Posts: 3786
Joined: 2 Feb 2007, 12:42pm

Re: Did we miss the best touring rear hub ever?

Postby hamster » 1 Dec 2020, 11:18am

Brucey wrote:I think it wasn't the type which has intrinsically low axle loading, and that it ran on four cartridge bearings.


I am sure you are right as it's a Shimano patent. The interesting thought which occurs is that it must be expiring soon (or already) as freehubs first appeared in the late 1980s.

To build on your point about marginal rear wheels (which I agree 100%), the pursuit of trivial weight savings has led Shimano to adopt the weaker unsupported style designs in their top hubs like Dura-Ace. I guess that's OK for racing but again disappointing for more general use.

Happy 7-speed user here!

Brucey
Posts: 43043
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Did we miss the best touring rear hub ever?

Postby Brucey » 1 Dec 2020, 12:13pm

hamster wrote:
Brucey wrote:I think it wasn't the type which has intrinsically low axle loading, and that it ran on four cartridge bearings.


I am sure you are right as it's a Shimano patent. The interesting thought which occurs is that it must be expiring soon (or already) as freehubs first appeared in the late 1980s....


the low axle loading is shared with plenty of other maker's cassette hubs, so shimano's relevant patent (which will have expired long ago BTW) may have referred to hollow bolts or somesuch. Hollow bolts have been used to secure shimano freehub bodies since the mid 1980s.

If you use axles that are fat enough they can be made stronger even if the bearings are not favourably disposed. But 'belt and braces' means that the strongest arrangements are not solely reliant upon this.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

fastpedaller
Posts: 2786
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Did we miss the best touring rear hub ever?

Postby fastpedaller » 1 Dec 2020, 1:41pm

It seems Velo Orange has discontinued their 120mm 5 speed freehub. I suspect the 'more is better' thinking has been a huge factor as to why hubs such as these clearly don't sell in large numbers any more - coupled with new bikes being 'compatible' with more gears. The manufacturers (of course) would be very unlikely to advertise any disbenefits associated with having more 'speeds'
FP - also a Happy 7-speed user :D

bgnukem
Posts: 607
Joined: 20 Dec 2010, 5:21pm

Re: Did we miss the best touring rear hub ever?

Postby bgnukem » 1 Dec 2020, 2:11pm

Would like to find a source of 7-speed Shimano freehub bodies, as they are narrower than the later 8/9/10/11-speed versions and would allow the rear wheel dish to be reduced a fair bit, by re-spacing the rear hub axle. I tend to run only 7 sprockets at the rear though, for chainline reasons.

Brucey
Posts: 43043
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Did we miss the best touring rear hub ever?

Postby Brucey » 1 Dec 2020, 2:18pm

whiskers have NOS shimano 7s freehub bodies.

It is also possible to shorten 8s freehub bodies to some extent.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

bgnukem
Posts: 607
Joined: 20 Dec 2010, 5:21pm

Re: Did we miss the best touring rear hub ever?

Postby bgnukem » 1 Dec 2020, 2:57pm

Cheers for the heads up.

Might get some. They seem to last forever with proper maintenance.

Sid Aluminium
Posts: 201
Joined: 26 Feb 2019, 7:38pm
Location: Beyond the edge of the wild

Re: Did we miss the best touring rear hub ever?

Postby Sid Aluminium » 1 Dec 2020, 3:36pm

reohn2 wrote:As for a touring standard of 6 sprockets,there's a reason the DMR didnt sell.


I'm of the opinion that a wonderful set of touring gears could be built up with six rear cogs combined with half-step+bulldog chainwheels.

Of course, it's been something like 30 years since any company has offered half-step chainsets.