What chainring and rear cog for Rohloff?

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slowster
Posts: 1938
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: What chainring and rear cog for Rohloff?

Postby slowster » 1 Jan 2021, 9:04pm

KMC's B1 bushed chain is available in both 1/8" and 3/32" widths, so the latter should give you the benefits of a bushed chain which would presumably definitely be compatible with a Chainglider.

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/kmc-b1-rust-buster-single-speed-chain

tommydog
Posts: 285
Joined: 11 Feb 2017, 6:48pm

Re: What chainring and rear cog for Rohloff?

Postby tommydog » 1 Jan 2021, 10:20pm

Brucey wrote:I just measured some chain parts and I found;

KMC 1/8" bushingless chains were mostly 8.6 to 8.7mm pin length
KMC 1/8" stainless bushingless chain about 8.8mm pin length
KMC 1/8" B1, B1S fully bushed chain 8.8 to 8.9mm pin length

KMC master link for 1/8" chain ~9.8mm pin length
Gusset 'slink' half link 1/8" chain, ~9.5mm pin length

so if 9mm is the limit then most KMC 1/8" chains will fit, but not if you use the master link; the chain would need to be joined using a chain tool. Some 1/8" chains definitely exceed 9mm so presumably won't fit at all.

cheers


Thank you for posting this Brucey, it is valuable information.

tommydog
Posts: 285
Joined: 11 Feb 2017, 6:48pm

Re: What chainring and rear cog for Rohloff?

Postby tommydog » 3 Jan 2021, 1:07pm

Has anyone ever measured a Shimano Nexus NX10 1/8 inch chain to see if it would fit the Hebie Chainglider? I am about to place an order with SJS cycles for a few parts and am tempted to tag one of these on to the order:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chains/shim ... ks-silver/

It joins with a pin, so wonder if it would just fit the Hebie Chainglider? I am quite keen to try something different to KMC this time round.

Brucey
Posts: 43049
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: What chainring and rear cog for Rohloff?

Postby Brucey » 3 Jan 2021, 2:12pm

shimano CN-NX10 chain is one of those made for shimano by KMC.

I've never measured one but I'd be surprised if it is much different from other KMC 1/8" bushingless chains. However it is possible that the joining pin might require dressing to make it the exact same length as the other pins in the chain.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

tommydog
Posts: 285
Joined: 11 Feb 2017, 6:48pm

Re: What chainring and rear cog for Rohloff?

Postby tommydog » 3 Jan 2021, 3:26pm

Brucey wrote:shimano CN-NX10 chain is one of those made for shimano by KMC.

I've never measured one but I'd be surprised if it is much different from other KMC 1/8" bushingless chains. However it is possible that the joining pin might require dressing to make it the exact same length as the other pins in the chain.


I did not know it was made by KMC - Is it sold under a KMC model name as well? I have not seen one of the joining pins on the Shimano CN-NX10 chain to know if it would need tweaking. But I would probably join the chain first and then use a Dremel to shave some off if I have to.

The alternative is to go for something like the fully bushed KMC B1 / B1S. Then there is the Kmc Z510, which seems to get quite good reviews on Amazon. I really don't want to pay any more than £10 for a chain, and will pick up a spare chain while I am at it. I will run it with the KMC 1/8" rear Rohloff sprocket (BSRR00316), so everything will be a dedicated 1/8". Not sure if people have a preference for a chain in this price bracket?

Brucey
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Re: What chainring and rear cog for Rohloff?

Postby Brucey » 3 Jan 2021, 3:46pm

if Rohloff sprockets and chainrings were cheap then cheap chains are a not a bad idea. But since they are not, I think it works out best if you use the most wear resistant chains possible.

I happily use KMC B1 chains because they are cheap enough that I don't mind wearing them out. So are SA sprockets, and if the (steel) chainring gets a worn and runs noisily with a new chain for a while, I can live with that. But even inside a chaincase I'd expect a B1 not to last more than about 5000 to 10000 miles. I'd expect to get a lot more from a 3/32" chain which is made using the best hardening technology. AFAICT there isn't a 1/8" chain which is made using the latest hardening technology, so despite 1/8" chains being inherently better in many respects, in practice I don't think you can buy a super-durable one... unless someone knows different?

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

tommydog
Posts: 285
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Re: What chainring and rear cog for Rohloff?

Postby tommydog » 3 Jan 2021, 5:15pm

Brucey wrote:if Rohloff sprockets and chainrings were cheap then cheap chains are a not a bad idea. But since they are not, I think it works out best if you use the most wear resistant chains possible.


If you look at this link
https://www.kmcchain.eu/sprocket-KMC_Ro ... _BSRR00000

It recommends this chain at £54
https://www.wiggle.co.uk/kmc-e101-ept-s ... bike-chain

Not sure if the above is much better than the £10 1/8" chains? Even if it is, I would argue it is poor value. In my experience there is no way that such a chain wold last 5 times longer, or even 3 times longer than a £10 chain. If a chain breaks when I am on the road, I fix it, but as soon as I get home it is binned. If I am on tour and away from home, I go to the nearest bike shop and get a brand new chain. At £10 a go, I can even afford to keep a spare chain. But I am certainly not buying a spare £54 chain. I guess it's all personal preference, but I have tried expensive chains in the past and not found them cost effective.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: What chainring and rear cog for Rohloff?

Postby Brucey » 3 Jan 2021, 5:41pm

yebbut it is not just the chain, is it? Not unless you change the chain when it is about 0.5% worn (which comes up pretty quickly with cheap chains, often between 500 and 1000 miles IME). If you are in for a new chainring, sprocket and chain, every time the chain wears out, the net cost is only about double even if you buy an expensive chain, so it only needs to last about twice as long...?

Have you double-checked your chainline? This might explain why you have broken chains previously...?

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

tommydog
Posts: 285
Joined: 11 Feb 2017, 6:48pm

Re: What chainring and rear cog for Rohloff?

Postby tommydog » 3 Jan 2021, 5:52pm

Brucey wrote:Have you double-checked your chainline? This might explain why you have broken chains previously...?


I have not double checked it yet, as the bike is currently stripped down, but when I rebuild everything I will make sure it is spot on. I have ordered a few cheap bottom brackets of various sizes, as well as chainwheel spacers, a few different sizes of Hebie chaingliders etc. So hope to get everything perfect for the rebuild. Anything that does not fit / I don't use, I will sell.

On the plus side for the expensive KMC E101 EPT 1/8" chain - I see the pin length is listed as only 8mm. I guess this may work quite well with the Hebie chainglider - even with a quick link maybe?

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: What chainring and rear cog for Rohloff?

Postby Brucey » 3 Jan 2021, 6:34pm

I'd suggest checking what your chainline was exactly because this may inform your choice of components in the future.

The E101 1/8" chain uses a master link like KMC derailleur chains so ought to be the same width as the rest of the chain. My guess is that this chain is built using slim side-plates which would otherwise be found in 10s or 11s chain (it has flush riveting like 10s or 11s chain), so probably isn't any stronger in tension than a 10s or 11s chain.

KMC have form for doing this sort of thing; their cheap 1/8" bushingless chains use the same side plates as cheap 7s derailleur chains and even have the same width half-bushings. The advantage over 3/32" chain is not in chain wear (elongation) but in the rate of sprocket wear, which is presumably why E101 chain is recommended for bosch e-bikes; they eat their (small) drive sprockets for breakfast.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Des49
Posts: 754
Joined: 2 Dec 2014, 11:45am

Re: What chainring and rear cog for Rohloff?

Postby Des49 » 3 Jan 2021, 6:37pm

I have had good (low) wear rates with a KMC X1 3/32nd chain, a Rohloff 17T sprocket and a Surly 42T stainless steel chainring. Used to use chainrings of 48 to 46T, but nowadays quite happy on a 42T, especially when heavily loaded. On a 26" wheeled bike. Good for 25mph on the 42x17, happy to freewheel when faster downhill.

The Surly ring has been great, muck cleans off it better too. These X1 chains I notice are no longer available, I have one spare which is about to get put on the bike, so will be looking at what is the nearest equivalent new chain. Had the current chain towards a couple of years I think, recent mucky weather and not enough cleaning seem to have accelerated the wear.

Whereas I run a 1/8" drivetrain on my fixed gear bike with a KMC B1 chain, I think I am happy to keep using 3/32nd on my Rohloff. About to try a half link to see if I can get away without the chain tensioner. Then I also will be keen to try a Hebie.

Thanks for the Bikepunx link Tommydog, was not aware of them and probably will try a new SS ring for my fixed.

PH
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Re: What chainring and rear cog for Rohloff?

Postby PH » 3 Jan 2021, 7:11pm

Des49 wrote: These X1 chains I notice are no longer available, I have one spare which is about to get put on the bike, so will be looking at what is the nearest equivalent new chain.

Also my chain of choice. They've still available and have been renamed E1. I stocked up while Planet X had stock for £18, they might have a couple left/

tommydog
Posts: 285
Joined: 11 Feb 2017, 6:48pm

Re: What chainring and rear cog for Rohloff?

Postby tommydog » 3 Jan 2021, 7:14pm

Brucey wrote:The E101 1/8" chain uses a master link like KMC derailleur chains so ought to be the same width as the rest of the chain. My guess is that this chain is built using slim side-plates which would otherwise be found in 10s or 11s chain (it has flush riveting like 10s or 11s chain), so probably isn't any stronger in tension than a 10s or 11s chain.


If the e101 EPT is no stronger, I really don't know how they can justify the extortionate price. The only plus I can see is that if you are running a 1/8" setup, it looks thin enough to work with the Hebie Chainglider, even if using a quick link.

I see the e101 EPT is currently being sold on Amazon Germany for 40 Euro - but even so it looks a steep price.

Des49
Posts: 754
Joined: 2 Dec 2014, 11:45am

Re: What chainring and rear cog for Rohloff?

Postby Des49 » 3 Jan 2021, 7:34pm

PH wrote:
Des49 wrote: These X1 chains I notice are no longer available, I have one spare which is about to get put on the bike, so will be looking at what is the nearest equivalent new chain.

Also my chain of choice. They've still available and have been renamed E1. I stocked up while Planet X had stock for £18, they might have a couple left/


Thanks for the tip! There were 2 left, which hopefully will be on their way to me next week.

tommydog
Posts: 285
Joined: 11 Feb 2017, 6:48pm

Re: What chainring and rear cog for Rohloff?

Postby tommydog » 5 Jan 2021, 8:10pm

I about to place an order with Bikepunx and will review the chainring after I have tried it. Hopefully it will be good.

Just one thing to note is that Bikepunx don't counterbore the chainring bolt holes. All of the chainrings I have previously owned have counterbore bolt holes, so not sure if counterboring is simply cosmetic or whether it has any engineering advantages?