160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

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hoogerbooger
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160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by hoogerbooger »

Been trying to work if I can just buy any 160mm 6 bolt rotor as replacements, for the worn ones on my missus' TRP spyres'.

The brakes in question have these rotors:
https://www.merlincycles.com/trp-standa ... 22872.html
Wot appear to be discontinued/scarce

I see from some posts that the radial width of the pad (in comparison to the metal available for braking contact on the rotor) is a factor to check and that some discs may state they are only for use with certain types of pad material ( organic/sintered)

anything else I need to check ?

At the mo I can't see why cheepo clarks rotors aren't a good option ?:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brakes/160- ... ake-rotor/
old fangled
Brucey
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Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by Brucey »

you are worrying about the correct things, and at that price you may as well give it a whirl?

cheers
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Valbrona
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Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by Valbrona »

I am assuming one pad is fixed in the case of Spyre's. What this means is that the rotor has to bend a little in operation, so your basic rotor made of SS should be used.

In the case of other disc brakes both pads move, meaning the rotor need not bend.
I should coco.
mikeymo
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Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by mikeymo »

Valbrona wrote:I am assuming one pad is fixed in the case of Spyre's. What this means is that the rotor has to bend a little in operation, so your basic rotor made of SS should be used.

In the case of other disc brakes both pads move, meaning the rotor need not bend.


Quite the opposite. The "selling point" of the Spyres is that it has dual pistons, both sides move:

https://trpcycling.com/product/spyre/

Though some here think this is of no great benefit. As far as I know most cable disc brakes have only one moving pad/piston, the Spyres are more the exception than the rule for cable disc brakes.

It's noteworthy that one of the more (most?) expensive cable disc brakes, the Paul Klampers:

https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/components/brakes/disc-brakes/i-s-klamper/

have only one moving pad. While price may not always equate to quality, Paul does have a reputation for producing thoughtfully designed, carefully engineered components. If I could afford a pair, I'd buy them, to replace my BB7s.
rmurphy195
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Location: South Birmingham

Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by rmurphy195 »

Valbrona wrote:I am assuming one pad is fixed in the case of Spyre's. What this means is that the rotor has to bend a little in operation, so your basic rotor made of SS should be used.

In the case of other disc brakes both pads move, meaning the rotor need not bend.


Nope, twin moving pads on the Spyres.

Not yet replaced the rotors on mine, it was fitted with Aztec rotors which look different to the ones on the TRP adverts, they seem to work well enough (for me, on a tourer with almost slick tyres rather than grippy MTB tyres) using semi-metallic pads (organic ones seem to dissolve in wet weather and make lots of noise in the dry!)
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair
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Cyclewala
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Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by Cyclewala »

mikeymo wrote:It's noteworthy that one of the more (most?) expensive cable disc brakes, the Paul Klampers:

https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/components/brakes/disc-brakes/i-s-klamper/

have only one moving pad. While price may not always equate to quality, Paul does have a reputation for producing thoughtfully designed, carefully engineered components. If I could afford a pair, I'd buy them, to replace my BB7s.


Why? Is it because the BB7s are bad or that the Klampers are good. I thought BB7 were held in high regard as a benchmark for cable disks, granted this was a few years ago.
Brucey
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Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by Brucey »

BB7s are good brakes but the 'road' version was designed before 2008 and since then pretty much all new model shimano STIs use a new pull ratio which is not a very good match for BB7s. Pauls Klampers exist in three versions, not just two, with the third version being suited to current shimano STIs. There is no comparable BB7 version to this.

cheers
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reohn2
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Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by reohn2 »

Clarks rotors are as good as any and will suit Spyres calipers providing they're the same diameter as the rotors currently fitted.

On the two pad v one pad activation debate,it doesn't make any difference to the braking power of the better disc calipers,I've run Spyres and BB7'S,both stop just as good as each other but I prefer the BB7'S to Spyres as they're far easier to maitain,adjust and they don't sit too close to the spokes with 700c wheels and 160mm rotors.
The last point isn't as much a problem with Shimano small flange splined hubs,whereas Shimano large flange six bolt hubs mean the spokes are closer to the inner edge of the Spyre caliper.

EDIT:- post amended :oops:
Last edited by reohn2 on 3 Jan 2021, 9:59am, edited 2 times in total.
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reohn2
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Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by reohn2 »

Cyclewala wrote:Why? Is it because the BB7s are bad or that the Klampers are good. I thought BB7 were held in high regard as a benchmark for cable disks, granted this was a few years ago.


BB7s are the benchmark for cable disc brakes.
Their only downside(though in reality it isn't) is the adjusters are plastic and the outer pad on some calipers from new isn't as secure as it could be needing a slight bending outward on the metal retaining clips.
Other than that they're a great caliper(when matched to the correct lever)with very good stopping power wet or dry with great modulation,they're also simple to strip down and maintain,the MTN version is also quite cheap to buy last time I looked.
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PH
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Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by PH »

reohn2 wrote:The rotor in the first link by the OP is for a rotor made to fit a splined hub,the Clarks rotor is for six bolt

That's odd, when I click the links in the OP they both lead to 6 bolt rotors.
reohn2
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Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by reohn2 »

PH wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The rotor in the first link by the OP is for a rotor made to fit a splined hub,the Clarks rotor is for six bolt

That's odd, when I click the links in the OP they both lead to 6 bolt rotors.

Apologies I didn't scroll down on the linked page :oops:
I'll amend my post.
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PH
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Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by PH »

Cyclewala wrote:Why? Is it because the BB7s are bad or that the Klampers are good. I thought BB7 were held in high regard as a benchmark for cable disks, granted this was a few years ago.

The BB7's are good the Klamper is better.
Better at what? Well, not stopping, I've used a few mechanical disc brakes, including Clarkes, BB5 & 7, TRP Spyke and a Klamper, they all stop me fine. Better lever feel and feedback, which might be considered modulation though I expect that's something that can be measured and I haven't. A construction that looks like it will last several lifetimes. A pad retention system I prefer. More readily available pads (Which shouldn't be a problem unless you go on a hilly tour and forget the spares for BB brakes :oops: ) Nice feel to the adjustment... Does anyone need them? Are they 5+ times better? No and no. They can quite easily be classed as an indulgence, I don't mid indulging myself in the best bike stuff from time to time and unlike other brakes I'm unlikely to change it again.
Cyckelgalen
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Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by Cyckelgalen »

I am also considering 180 mm rotors not as an upgrade but rather to be able to fit the Spyres at all. I got a pair of Spyres that someone discarded (one was jammed with corrosion and grit) and was ready to give them a try but the callipers rub on the spokes, on both wheels on different sets of wheels. The very fact that the inner piston also moves means that the inner side of the calliper protrudes more inwards of the rotor and can easily foul the spokes.

One way around this issue will be to convert to 180 mm rotors, the other would be to space out the rotor. I had thought of cutting out the centre section of a worn 6 bolt disc to make a 2 mm spacer. I don't really know which is the best solution.

Despite their flaws, the Spyres seem to be the mechanical brake of choice for most mid and high end gravel and touring bikes these days, Kona Sutra an the like. They look good and, to my knowledge, are the only mechanical brakes with dual piston movement buy they are likely to be less rugged and reliable in the long run.

Each piston is moved by three bearing balls that slide along a ramp as the arm rotates. The whole set up is exposed to the elements and has little or no lubrication, as a result, the onset of corrosion is inevitable and the callipers will start to feel notchy and eventually jam. Another common complaint is that they loose adjustment constantly. The adjustment is fixed only by a smear of blue thread lock on each piston's thread that stops working after your tweak and adjust a number of times.
Still, after taking them appart and getting them to work smoothly, I am willing to give them a try, I hope the dual piston thing translates really into improved braking, otherwise I will go back to my good old Hayes Expert, single piston but work well and have no maintenance issues
Brucey
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Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by Brucey »

there are three main problems with spyres (even if they fit)

1) the pad adjustment screws move all by themselves because the only thing stopping them from moving when the calipers are new is soft blue threadlock. After about half a dozen adjustments the screw won't be retained properly.

2) the ball bearings inside the caliper are prone to corrosion, because the mechanism isn't sealed in any meaningful way. It isn't three balls on ramps that are the problem in spyres; it is the (many) tiny balls in the thrust bearings which are the problem. IIRC these are miniscule, (about 1.5mm dia) and these are what usually makes the caliper feel as rough as a badger's beam end.

3) their raison d'etre is basically a crock of crap; the slight lateral flexing of brake discs with single piston calipers is a theoretical rather than practical concern. The reality is that in many well-used spyre setups the disc flexes more than with a single piston caliper because of 1) above... duh..

Spyres do have one thing going for them over many single-piston 'road' caliper designs; the caliper MA is better suited to current shimano STIs than older caliper designs; for example BB5 and BB7 'road' calipers best suit older (pre 2008) shimano STIs.

If you want to space a 6-bolt disc out (which is much the easiest way) you can buy shims to do this. [eg https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brakes/avid-rotor-hub-shim/ ] .You can just use washers under each bolt instead if you are not fussy about details.

A final point is that DB or aero spokes are slimmer at the spoke crossings than PG, so the wheel build can influence caliper to spoke clearance too.
Last edited by Brucey on 3 Jan 2021, 11:07am, edited 1 time in total.
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mikeymo
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Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by mikeymo »

Cyclewala wrote:
mikeymo wrote:It's noteworthy that one of the more (most?) expensive cable disc brakes, the Paul Klampers:

https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/components/brakes/disc-brakes/i-s-klamper/

have only one moving pad. While price may not always equate to quality, Paul does have a reputation for producing thoughtfully designed, carefully engineered components. If I could afford a pair, I'd buy them, to replace my BB7s.


Why? Is it because the BB7s are bad or that the Klampers are good. I thought BB7 were held in high regard as a benchmark for cable disks, granted this was a few years ago.


BB7s are designed for "old" road cable pull. My Sora brifters are NSSLR cable pull, which isn't the same. Paul Klampers have interchangeable arms for MTB pull, Old Road pull, NSSLR pull.

Though to be honest, when I tried a pair of Shimano Sora cable disc brakes (well, just one of the pair), it wasn't a massive success. Partly because they were a bit rubbish compared to the BB7s and also, because they were the "correct" cable pull, the amount of brake lever travel was greater. Which with my small hands was actually a disadvantage, I had to adjust the travel so that the levers started further away from the bars, in order to stop them bottoming out. There's not much point having the "correct" cable pull if I can't reach the brakes!
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