160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

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mikeymo
Posts: 2299
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by mikeymo »

PH wrote:
Cyclewala wrote:Why? Is it because the BB7s are bad or that the Klampers are good. I thought BB7 were held in high regard as a benchmark for cable disks, granted this was a few years ago.

The BB7's are good the Klamper is better.
Better at what? Well, not stopping, I've used a few mechanical disc brakes, including Clarkes, BB5 & 7, TRP Spyke and a Klamper, they all stop me fine. Better lever feel and feedback, which might be considered modulation though I expect that's something that can be measured and I haven't. A construction that looks like it will last several lifetimes. A pad retention system I prefer. More readily available pads (Which shouldn't be a problem unless you go on a hilly tour and forget the spares for BB brakes :oops: ) Nice feel to the adjustment... Does anyone need them? Are they 5+ times better? No and no. They can quite easily be classed as an indulgence, I don't mid indulging myself in the best bike stuff from time to time and unlike other brakes I'm unlikely to change it again.


I too sometimes like to indulge myself, and every so often dream about Klampers. Could I ask you what brake levers you are using them with, and which Klamper arm?

Thanks.
Cyckelgalen
Posts: 220
Joined: 21 Sep 2018, 11:29am

Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by Cyckelgalen »

Thanks Brucey,

The thrust bearings, embedded in a plastic disc are truely tiny, even 1 mm I would say. Another weak point certainly. I cleaned and lubed all bearings but wonder if there should be any lube in a calliper at all, as it could contaminate pads and rotors.

On the plus side, compared to my current Hayes Expert, the Spyres use the most readily available and cheap Shimano pads, type B01S. That's an important factor in touring bike.

I ruled out washers for spacing because they normally have bent, burred edges and that may affect the precise spacing of each bolt and possibly misalign the rotor. The spacers you link are only 0.2 mm thick and I would need many at 5 quid each.
Using a section of a worm disc gives me a perfect even thickness all around but they are 2 mm thick, maybe too much. By the way, if I space out as much as two mm, would it be advisable to get longer bolts?

If the Spyres MA is better suited to modern Shimano STI levers, that may may explain why they are so common rather than any inherent virtue.
Brucey
Posts: 44454
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by Brucey »

Cyckelgalen wrote:I ruled out washers for spacing because they normally have bent, burred edges and that may affect the precise spacing of each bolt and possibly misalign the rotor.

yebbut the washers are all the same and (provided they are all mounted the same way round) will end up the same thickness as one another once the bolts are done up. It usually works well and washers are not expensive.

The spacers you link are only 0.2 mm thick and I would need many at 5 quid each.


just an example. There are lots of others eg

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brakes/100-mm-hope-6-bolt-hub-disc-spacer/

you should always use the longest bolts that won't bottom out before they clamp the disc.

Spyres are not the only caliper that works the same way but the others are no better. Spyke/spyres are popular because folk (e.g. gullible, impressionable folk who write for bike mags) believed the hype and couldn't tell the difference between having the wrong MA in other brakes and genuinely bad brakes. Usually, Spyke/spyres work well enough for a few months before the rot sets in (literally).

FWIW having a common sized brake pad is a benefit which is easy to overrate; you should carry spares for your brakes, whatever they are, when touring.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PH
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Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by PH »

mikeymo wrote: Could I ask you what brake levers you are using them with, and which Klamper arm?
Thanks.

It's on the front of my folder, straight bar, V brake lever and appropriate Klamper.
PH
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Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by PH »

Brucey wrote:Spyke/spyres are popular because folk (e.g. gullible, impressionable folk who write for bike mags) believed the hype and couldn't tell the difference between having the wrong MA in other brakes and genuinely bad brakes. Usually, Spyke/spyres work well enough for a few months before the rot sets in (literally).
cheers

I'm no fan, I have one left out of three and at some point that'll be changed to the BB7 I have spare.
However, they do have one other advantage in that the gubbins on the outer side are as small as on the inner, which can reduce interference with rack fitting. Maybe that's the reason both Spa and Thorn changed to them from BB7's.
mikeymo
Posts: 2299
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by mikeymo »

PH wrote:
mikeymo wrote: Could I ask you what brake levers you are using them with, and which Klamper arm?
Thanks.

It's on the front of my folder, straight bar, V brake lever and appropriate Klamper.


Thanks for the info.
robert17
Posts: 376
Joined: 24 Mar 2009, 1:41pm
Location: Worcs

Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by robert17 »

Oh. I'm so pleased with my new Spa bike with Spyre brakes - thinking that my first foray in to the world of disc brakes was beginning with a good set. Should I worry? What can I do to delay the 'rot'? Thank you.
Brucey
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Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by Brucey »

robert17 wrote:Oh. I'm so pleased with my new Spa bike with Spyre brakes - thinking that my first foray in to the world of disc brakes was beginning with a good set. Should I worry? What can I do to delay the 'rot'? Thank you.


not much really. You can keep applying soft threadlock to the pad adjuster screws I suppose. Most forms of grease inside the caliper body risk melting when the brake gets hot, so can't be used liberally on the bearings. Silicone grease won't melt but it isn't that good at resisting corrosion either, and to get it into the right place you need to take the caliper apart. Which is a PITA.

FWIW I can rebuild a wheel quicker than I can overhaul one of these calipers and I have yet to find one that needed it where the thrust bearings were not also on their last legs. That the thrust bearings clap out when water gets inside them makes something of a mockery of the touted 'advantages in the wet' of disc brakes.

The BB7 design is simpler because it has a central pivot for the 'pad foot' and uses the three-ball ramp as a combined actuator and thrust bearing; it needs no separate thrust bearing, leave alone two of the blessed things as in Spyke/Spyre brakes. However it doesn't have the correct MA for current shimano STIs. I can understand Spa using spyres because it is one of the few disc brake calipers that does work well with current shimano STIs, there really isn't that much choice. TRP HyRd are another option but these also have their own set of issues.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
hoogerbooger
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Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by hoogerbooger »

Thanks Brucie!! Glad I only bought the cheapo clarks disks if the brakes will disintegrate in the slightest drizzle.
old fangled
robert17
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Joined: 24 Mar 2009, 1:41pm
Location: Worcs

Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by robert17 »

Many thanks. I'll see how they go.
Cyckelgalen
Posts: 220
Joined: 21 Sep 2018, 11:29am

Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by Cyckelgalen »

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topi ... ild-guide/

For anyone interested, that's how you take the spyres appart. According to Tektro, there not user serviceable though.
Notice the thrust bearing that Brucey is so fond of, the item on the left, middle row in the last two photos. Looks like a plastic washer, that is the cage and the tiny dots are the actual bearings.
Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by Brucey »

from the link above

Image

from memory, the three balls on the ramps are no larger than 5/32" in these calipers, which should tell you how small the thrust bearing balls really are.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
mcshroom
Posts: 175
Joined: 30 Aug 2011, 12:00am

Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by mcshroom »

For the OP's question, I have Spyres on my Vapour. I use a lifeline replacement disc on my off-road wheelset which works with no problems, and I have an Avid 140mm one on the rear which was a little thin at the brake track (so some of the printed text on the arms to the braking area has rubbed off, but works perfectly well.
MrCJF
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Joined: 5 Aug 2020, 1:42pm
Location: Fleet, Hampshire

Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by MrCJF »

I hate the TRP SPyres on my Boardman ADV. Why? Because I'm used to the Hayes CX brakes on my Genesis Croix de Fer. Changing between bikes requires a massive mental readjustment to the different braking powers.

I think the whole "2 pistons is better than 1" mantra is actually the wrong way around. Think about compressing an object between your two hands, then think about compressing the same object against a fixed surface using both hands - which is going to be more effective? Using the full force at the lever to push one moving pad against fixed pad is going to outweigh any issues with the disc bending by less than 1mm.

It's now really hard to get Hayes CX calipers in the UK, I did get one last year that is now on the front. I need to get a spacer to center the rotor as it's too near the fixed pad. But the Hayes are so easy to set up and adjust in comparison to the Spyres - I managed to round the adjustment screws on the Spyres really quickly - having a small hex bolt that you can't actually see doesn't make for happy servicing. They also seem to wear though pads quickly - I've tried a couple of brands but can't find one that lasts more than a few hundred miles. Brake pad on my rear Spyre has improved now that I have the Hayes CX at the front, though.
jb
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Re: 160mm rotors for TRP Spyre question

Post by jb »

The only advantage I can see is you get a bit of clearance both sides which makes them better for a slightly warped disc & more even pad wear.
Other than that you just get twice the friction and twice the complication and twice the sealing problem.
Cheers
J Bro
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