3x10 gears with Bar end Shifters

[iandusud]

What are the options for a 3x10 speed set up using bar end shifters? On our tandem I currently have a Tiagra 4700GS rear mech with 4700 STI levers. I'm thinking of building up a new tandem and want to go down the route of bar end shifters. I'm assuming I could use the above rear mech with DuraAce 10 speed bar ends. However the 4700GS mech is running beyond its capacity and although not a problem I'm wondering if an mtb rear mech would be better suited, in which case what works with what? I notice that Microshift market a10 speed bar ends for use with Shimano mtb gears. Anyone have any experience of these?

Thanks, Ian

[slowster]

However the 4700GS mech is running beyond its capacity and although not a problem I'm wondering if an mtb rear mech would be better suited, in which case what works with what?

Shimano 9 speed rear MTB derailleurs are compatible with Shimano 10 speed road shifters (whereas 10 speed rear MTB derailleurs are not).

However, Shimano appear to have discontinued manufacturing 9 speed rear MTB derailleurs, so choice and availability is limited. I suspect a Deore M592 with long cage (SGS version) would be your best option.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shimano-RD-M592-Deore-Shadow-Rear-Derailleur-Black/254796359187

[iandusud]

However the 4700GS mech is running beyond its capacity and although not a problem I'm wondering if an mtb rear mech would be better suited, in which case what works with what?

Shimano 9 speed rear MTB derailleurs are compatible with Shimano 10 speed road shifters (whereas 10 speed rear MTB derailleurs are not).

However, Shimano appear to have discontinued manufacturing 9 speed rear MTB derailleurs, so choice and availability is limited. I suspect a Deore M592 with long cage (SGS version) would be your best option.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shimano-RD-M592-Deore-Shadow-Rear-Derailleur-Black/254796359187

I think that DuraAce 10 speed has a different cable pull to other iterations of Shimano 10 speed (105 and Ultegra) but not Tiagra 4700 and if so I'm not sure if an mtb 9 speed mech would work with DuraAce bar ends. However you may be right? Having said that if you are right I'm not sure how wise it is to go down the lines of using obsolete gears.

Ian

[pwa]

However the 4700GS mech is running beyond its capacity and although not a problem I'm wondering if an mtb rear mech would be better suited, in which case what works with what?

Shimano 9 speed rear MTB derailleurs are compatible with Shimano 10 speed road shifters (whereas 10 speed rear MTB derailleurs are not).

However, Shimano appear to have discontinued manufacturing 9 speed rear MTB derailleurs, so choice and availability is limited. I suspect a Deore M592 with long cage (SGS version) would be your best option.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shimano-RD-M592-Deore-Shadow-Rear-Derailleur-Black/254796359187

I think that DuraAce 10 speed has a different cable pull to other iterations of Shimano 10 speed (105 and Ultegra) but not Tiagra 4700 and if so I'm not sure if an mtb 9 speed mech would work with DuraAce bar ends. However you may be right? Having said that if you are right I'm not sure how wise it is to go down the lines of using obsolete gears.

Ian

Dura Ace 9 speed bar ends and Shimano 9 speed MTB mechs have been my default combo for ages, and they work perfectly together. I don't know about Dura Ace 10 speed though. But as said, 9 speed MTB mechs are getting very thin on the ground anyway.

[iandusud]

Dura Ace 9 speed bar ends and Shimano 9 speed MTB mechs have been my default combo for ages, and they work perfectly together. I don't know about Dura Ace 10 speed though. But as said, 9 speed MTB mechs are getting very thin on the ground anyway.

TBH I would be perfectly happy to go with 9 speed rather than 10 other than for the fact that our current tandem is 10 speed and it might be useful to have compatibility should I need to swap a rear wheel for example.

[ElCani]

It’s Tiagra 4700 and GRX 400 that have a different cable to pull to all other road 10 speed. So to use 10 speed Dura Ace bar end shifters you need a nine speed road or MTB mech, or a (not 4700 or GRX) 10 speed road mech.

[slowster]

Having said that if you are right I'm not sure how wise it is to go down the lines of using obsolete gears.

If you want to use Shimano bar end shifters (or down tube levers) with either 9 speed or 10 speed cassettes and you also need a large capacity rear derailleur, then you need a Shimano 9 speed MTB rear derailleur. Shimano 10 speed MTB rear derailleurs use a different cable pull to the road shifters. So either of the following combinations work:

Shimano 9 speed bar end shifter + Shimano 9 speed MTB rear derailleur + Shimano 9 speed cassette

Shimano 10 speed bar end shifter + Shimano 9 speed MTB rear derailleur + Shimano 10 speed cassette

You probably need to weigh up the cost of buying one or two Shimano 9 speed MTB rear derailleurs now while they are still available, compared with the cost of the Microshift levers you mention and a Shimano 10 speed MTB rear derailleur.

With regard to buying kit that is obsolete, I would feel happier buying two of those 9 speed rear derailleurs now and knowing that I had a spare, than buying a single (and more expensive) 10 speed rear derailleur and finding when I needed to replace it that it was obsolete and no longer available, given that bar end shifters should outlast the derailleurs and cassettes should still be available for years to come.

[MikeDee]

I'm running 10 speed bar end shifters and 8 speed Deore LX derailleurs. Cables are run under the bar tape and the cranks are Deore 9 speed triple cranks. Works great.

[Tompsk]

AFAIK you can use a 7-9 speed MTB or 7-10 speed road rear mech as long as the shifters match the cassette (Tiagra 4700 shifters excepted) So could you use an 8 speed rear mech, perhaps with narrower jocky wheels to suit 9 or 10 speed chains? OTOH you may baulk at using lower spec mechs.

PS Or (as I have read on this site) swap the bar end shifters over so the indexed does the front changer and the non-indexed controls the rear. Going friction you can then mix and match on the rear, however on a tandem you may not be able to hear well enough to set the rear mech (over the grumbling of the stoker

[iandusud]

Thank you everyone for your helpful replies. All food for thought.

[Brucey]

IIRC Microshift make several different models of 10s bar end shifters, to suit different rear mechs. They may be worth having a look at, depending on the constraints you have in choosing the RD in your setup.

FWIW Tiagra 4700 10s, GRX 10s and shimano 11s 'road' RDs all use the same shift ratio, so will all work from the same shifters.

Older shimano 10s 'road' stuff uses the same shift ratio as 9s etc.

cheers

[iandusud]

FWIW Tiagra 4700 10s, GRX 10s and shimano 11s 'road' RDs all use the same shift ratio, so will all work from the same shifters.

So does that mean that those 10 speed RDs should work with 11 speed bar ends?

[ElCani]

FWIW Tiagra 4700 10s, GRX 10s and shimano 11s 'road' RDs all use the same shift ratio, so will all work from the same shifters.

So does that mean that those 10 speed RDs should work with 11 speed bar ends?

Yep, assuming they are road 11 speed (there might be Microshift MTB 11 speed bar ends).

[mcshroom]

FWIW Tiagra 4700 10s, GRX 10s and shimano 11s 'road' RDs all use the same shift ratio, so will all work from the same shifters.

So does that mean that those 10 speed RDs should work with 11 speed bar ends?

Only if you wanted 11speed at the rear. The actuation ratio might be the same, but a 10sp cassette has wider gaps between the sprockets than 11sp, so the actual cable pulled per click is different.

[roubaixtuesday]

re the "need" for MTB rear derailleur for large capacity, it depends what you mean by "large capacity" I guess, but we have on our tandem:

Sora 9S
RD running an 11-36 cassette
Front chainrings 46/36/24

Both front and rear are two teeth beyond nominal capacity I think, but the whole system works flawlessly.

I think that's pretty much ideal for a tandem.

We have STIs rather than bar ends.