Stuck bottom bracket - don’t give up!

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peetee
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Stuck bottom bracket - don’t give up!

Post by peetee »

One of the hazards of buying second hand is hoping that both the owners mechanic and the original assembler of the bike had a thorough approach to their work. A case in point is the bottom bracket area where water from the road and rain can enter, hang around for a fair while and, in the absence of any protective grease, cause the sort of corrosion that can defeat the efforts of many when the assembly needs removing.
Here is a case in point, the owner has tried their best to remove this sealed unit from the frame and consequently ruined the tool engagement splines. Compare it to a new unit:
D0B8ACA7-6697-416C-B6C1-3615F50D2DA0.jpeg

This almost certainly happened because the tool wasn’t secured to the cup. In most cases this is not directly suggested by the manufacturers (probably because it draws attention to the fact that they have palmed you off with a half-baked product produced as cheaply as possible) but something I always do regardless of the condition of the frame or bracket simply because it prolongs the life of the tool by ensuring all the turning effort is rotational and some of the force applied isn’t converted into a prising action like removing a beer bottle top. Fortunately the solution is cheap and doesn’t require the purchase of a more sophisticated and costly tool. Just find or purchase a large thick washer or reinforcement plate wide enough to span the outer face of the tool and with a hole large enough for the crank bolt.
1EB67BE2-AB19-4787-A16E-7738D49E78DC.jpeg
For the really tightly secured bottom bracket cups an old, steel vacuum cleaner pipe slid over the end of a spanner provides enough leverage to get the majority of cups out of the frame but if this is required be sure that the frame is held in such a way as that components or fittings are not victim to the ‘every action has an opposite and equal reaction’ rule. With the muck and swarf cleaned from the cup splines and the tool now very securely tightened on, even with the greater part of the splines missing, there was enough purchase to remove it from the rusty frame shell.
Late edit: It’s worth adding that no drastic action is taken before a very liberal application inside and out of release fluid -preferably at least 24 hours before.
Last edited by peetee on 19 Jan 2021, 11:45am, edited 2 times in total.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
rjb
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Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 10:25am
Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: Stuck bottom bracket - don’t give up!

Post by rjb »

Mine was stuck solid. My tools were more valuable than the now scrap frame.
viewtopic.php?t=94465
Standing on the frame and using my quads to pull the extension up couldn't budge the left hand cup. The right hand cup was the same and I do know the right cup has a right hand thread. :(
Last edited by rjb on 19 Jan 2021, 9:05am, edited 1 time in total.
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway X2, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
francovendee
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Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: Stuck bottom bracket - don’t give up!

Post by francovendee »

That system works every time.
I found it was easy to let the tool slip no matter how hard you tried to keep it engaged with the splines. This stops all that.
Stradageek
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Joined: 17 Jan 2011, 1:07pm

Re: Stuck bottom bracket - don’t give up!

Post by Stradageek »

Yup, I do the same :D
De Sisti
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Joined: 17 Jun 2007, 6:03pm

Re: Stuck bottom bracket - don’t give up!

Post by De Sisti »

I had a similar problem back in September last year.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=141208

(Pics included).
merseymouth
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Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 11:16am

Re: Stuck bottom bracket - don’t give up!

Post by merseymouth »

Hi all, You fall over machines types have it easy! B/B removal is a doddle compared with trying to remove a freewheel unit from some trike axles?
I'm currently in the process of dismantling a 1949 Higgins Ultralite that defies all trike knowledge, even after more than 40years!
With a cluster that went out of production before the current Queen's Coronation so tools don't exactly fall to hand, the it employs an unusual means of being held in place.
Having located a block removal tool, too wide but beggars can't be choosers, got my metal maestro to trim it down to size, so then we come to holding the tool in place?
Normally one drops the tool over the wheel axle, securing it with either the quick release or wheel nut, simple. Only trikes don't conform to usual practise.
I have a Baldrick style "Cunning Plan", but till it either works or doesn't I'll keep my powder dry?
But it just shows one should be prepared to think outside of the box. TTFN MM
peetee
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Re: Stuck bottom bracket - don’t give up!

Post by peetee »

merseymouth wrote:Hi all, You fall over machines types have it easy! B/B removal is a doddle compared with trying to remove a freewheel unit from some trike axles?


It’s not always cut and dried that the above method will work. On one very memorable occasion I ditched the vacuum cleaner pipe in preference to a 5 ft scaffold pole. Even then it took a fair tug to break free. I will add that I was very particular about securing the frame and it was very sturdily built. Remarkably all that torque and the suddenly breakaway did no damage to the bracket threads.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
Brucey
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Re: Stuck bottom bracket - don’t give up!

Post by Brucey »

FWIW the one thing you shouldn't do is to use a hammer on the tool. I recently broke a shimano UN BB tool by doing that, and I didn't think I'd hit it that hard. The same tool had survived a scaffold pole previously ( est 500-600 ftlbs), so it was strong.... but not tough....

FWIW I nearly always use a washer on the tool, but my washer is ~35mm dia, which means that I can slip a full hex 3/4" drive 36mm socket onto it if I want to.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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chris_suffolk
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Re: Stuck bottom bracket - don’t give up!

Post by chris_suffolk »

Instead of brute force, might be worth heating it. I had a bottom bracket that was seized, and wouldn't budge. Heated with a blow torch, and it undid as if fitted yesterday. Guessing unequal expansion of various parts / differing metals just broke all the seized interfaces apart. May be worth a try. Didn't even damage the paint, which was my initial worry.
Stradageek
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Joined: 17 Jan 2011, 1:07pm

Re: Stuck bottom bracket - don’t give up!

Post by Stradageek »

Brucey wrote:FWIW I nearly always use a washer on the tool, but my washer is ~35mm dia, which means that I can slip a full hex 3/4" drive 36mm socket onto it if I want to.

Yup, my technique too. Beginning to think I must have tackled rather a lot of seized BB's :?
gxaustin
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Re: Stuck bottom bracket - don’t give up!

Post by gxaustin »

All the BBs I've found hard to remove were assembled by an LBS. I've never had any trouble with my self assembled ones.
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Sweep
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Re: Stuck bottom bracket - don’t give up!

Post by Sweep »

I use something very similar to this from Tacz for all BB work.

https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Tacx/T ... lsrc=aw.ds

though the Shimano version.

It just locks on.

I never understand why all BB tools aren't like this.

The normal vast majority ones strike even me, who has little mechanical sympathy, as an abomination.

I found mine, very strangely, in a remainder bin and it took me a while to figure out what it was.

Personally I'd put all the standard ones in the remainder bin/a skip.
Sweep
Brucey
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Re: Stuck bottom bracket - don’t give up!

Post by Brucey »

IIRC many such tools (including the tacx one) are long, and this means the tool is trying to 'cam out' whenever a straight-armed spanner is used on it. Shallow tools (such as the shimano one) exert less cam-out force. Needless to say because there are many different threadings for the centre bolt, there is no 'one-size-fits-all' tool which secures to every BB spindle.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
gregoryoftours
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Re: Stuck bottom bracket - don’t give up!

Post by gregoryoftours »

If your BB tool is low profile enough you can use the crank bolt with a washer, If not a longer m8x1 bolt has the correct thread to fit, but for about the same price you can get this, which works for both square taper and octalink spindles.
Screenshot_2021-01-20-19-52-31-927_com.ebay.mobile.png


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RISK-Bicycle-Bottom-Bracket-Axis-Anti-Drop-Bike-Fix-Rod-Repair-Removal-Tool-/133629595676?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292
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Sweep
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Re: Stuck bottom bracket - don’t give up!

Post by Sweep »

gregoryoftours wrote:If your BB tool is low profile enough you can use the crank bolt with a washer, If not a longer m8x1 bolt has the correct thread to fit, but for about the same price you can get this, which works for both square taper and octalink spindles.Screenshot_2021-01-20-19-52-31-927_com.ebay.mobile.png

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RISK-Bicycle-Bottom-Bracket-Axis-Anti-Drop-Bike-Fix-Rod-Repair-Removal-Tool-/133629595676?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

I have one of those as well.
A bit more complicated doing a personal import from the east these days though?
Remain puzzled by why Park do nothing similar (or do they?)
Do they just like to hear folk curse?
Sweep
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