Mechanical disc brake choice.

[Ray]

The stock pads on the Spyres are rubbish.

This caught my eye because I have been slightly disappointed with the mechanical TRP Spyres on my Spa Elan. Do you (or anyone else) have a recommendation for replacement pads for the Spyres, please?

I realise, of course, that brake effectiveness is influenced by more than just the pads. Having cleaned the discs with IPA, checked and adjusted the cable lines, squared off the ends of the outers and replaced the ferrules, lubed the inners, and kept an eye on pad clearance due to wear, I am wondering whether a change of pads might improve things. I should perhaps say that the brakes work pretty well, but I can't say they're an improvement on the rim brakes on my other bikes.
Perhaps I am expecting too much?

[Brucey]

I can't comment on any you've listed (my new bike not due for a few months will have BB7s) but I would say avoid Hayes. My Croix de Fer (2014) came with CX Expert mechanical disk brakes and the brakes are fine, no issues and I like them. Just getting replacement pads for them is very difficult. The few 3rd party ones generally have bad reviews and UK importer imports the callipers but NOT the pads so I have to order Hayes pads from Germany. Only reason I comment to avoid is pad availability.

I'm not sure that this is anything like as bad as you suggest. Hayes 'CX Expert' brakes the same pads as other Hayes CX model brakes, also MX series and 'Sole' models too. They are a pretty common pad.

For example
Discobrakes do five different pad compounds in this fitment
Clarks make pads in this fitment (I've seen several different compounds)
EBC make pads in this fitment (again several different compounds)

Other brake pad manufacturers/suppliers also do pads to fit.

There are also numerous other aftermarket pads available in this fitment, available via online suppliers. Putting sensible search terms into ebay currently results in over 300 listings (most relevant) for suitable pads. Overall I'd describe pad availability for these brakes as 'much better than average'. I'm not sure I can think of a good reason for ordering pads from Germany...?

cheers

[Psamathe]

I can't comment on any you've listed (my new bike not due for a few months will have BB7s) but I would say avoid Hayes. My Croix de Fer (2014) came with CX Expert mechanical disk brakes and the brakes are fine, no issues and I like them. Just getting replacement pads for them is very difficult. The few 3rd party ones generally have bad reviews and UK importer imports the callipers but NOT the pads so I have to order Hayes pads from Germany. Only reason I comment to avoid is pad availability.

I'm not sure that this is anything like as bad as you suggest. Hayes 'CX Expert' brakes the same pads as other Hayes CX model brakes, also MX series and 'Sole' models too. They are a pretty common pad.

For example
Discobrakes do five different pad compounds in this fitment
Clarks make pads in this fitment (I've seen several different compounds)
EBC make pads in this fitment (again several different compounds)

Other brake pad manufacturers/suppliers also do pads to fit.

There are also numerous other aftermarket pads available in this fitment, available via online suppliers. Putting sensible search terms into ebay currently results in over 300 listings (most relevant) for suitable pads. Overall I'd describe pad availability for these brakes as 'much better than average'. I'm not sure I can think of a good reason for ordering pads from Germany...?

cheers

(Probably moving away from OPs question) my excellent LBS searched and could not get any. I searched online and in the end had to get them from Germany. The few 3rd party ones there were in the UK had enough prominent bad reviews to make me avoid them. Quite a few different Hayes pads and a lot of them more popular than the ones the CX use. When I purchased the bike they were not as hard to get but a lot of online places discontinued them. I even got to the point of considering swapping the brakes for BB7s (expensive but easier way forward.

(I wont touch eBay - purchased a few things through the site and it was complete rubbish so now avoid it completely)

(New bike ordered with BB7s)

Ian

[Brucey]

...my excellent LBS searched and could not get any. I searched online and in the end had to get them from Germany. The few 3rd party ones there were in the UK had enough prominent bad reviews to make me avoid them. Quite a few different Hayes pads and a lot of them more popular than the ones the CX use....

CX expert pads are also used in

Hayes Sole
Hayes CX Pro, CX Expert, CX Comp
GX-C (GXC) GX-2 (GX2)
MX-1 (MX1) MX-2 (MX2) MX2-XC (MX2XC) MX-3 (MX3) MX-4 (MX4) MX-5 (MX5)
Cannondale Helix
Bengal Mechanical Helix MB700 MB700T PH02

models. They are a very common type of pad.

I'm not sure your LBS can have been trying very hard; for example Aztec make suitable pads (again in several different compounds) are decent quality and they are distributed by Madison. Pretty much every maker of bicycle brake pads makes pads in this fitment. I'd describe it as one of the easier ones to find pads for, not one of the more difficult ones.

cheers

[boblo]

The stock pads on the Spyres are rubbish.

Do you (or anyone else) have a recommendation for replacement pads for the Spyres, please?

I've been using Uber's sintered and kevlar pads, the latter by mistake not because I'm racing... The sintered ones are better than Tektro's OEM pad.

[Psamathe]

...my excellent LBS searched and could not get any. I searched online and in the end had to get them from Germany. The few 3rd party ones there were in the UK had enough prominent bad reviews to make me avoid them. Quite a few different Hayes pads and a lot of them more popular than the ones the CX use....

CX expert pads are also used in

Hayes Sole
Hayes CX Pro, CX Expert, CX Comp
GX-C (GXC) GX-2 (GX2)
MX-1 (MX1) MX-2 (MX2) MX2-XC (MX2XC) MX-3 (MX3) MX-4 (MX4) MX-5 (MX5)
Cannondale Helix
Bengal Mechanical Helix MB700 MB700T PH02

models. They are a very common type of pad.

I'm not sure your LBS can have been trying very hard; for example Aztec make suitable pads (again in several different compounds) are decent quality and they are distributed by Madison. Pretty much every maker of bicycle brake pads makes pads in this fitment. I'd describe it as one of the easier ones to find pads for, not one of the more difficult ones.

cheers

LBS has an account with Madison but could not get them. It was a couple of years ago as in Norfolk you don't eat through pads. But then the UK importer/distributor didn't even import the Hayes ones (and didn't supply alternatives). And I did an extensive search ('cos getting from Germany was expensive); like I said there were a few but too many bad reviews of the few available and I didn't want to change pads id-2-month tour to discover they didn't fit well or were useless. There were also a fair number of places listing them online but when I checked stock, no stock, no expected dates. I can only recount my experiences.

Ian

[PH]

Perhaps I am expecting too much?

Possibly. My expectation is for them to work as well in the dry as well set up rim brakes and in the wet to be almost as good as in the dry. There's been minor differences in braking performance between callipers, pads, cables, but they've all fulfilled my expectation. Though I'd also say the move to hydraulics on one bike exceeded them.
For pads, I like Discobrakes, I've tried three of their compounds on four different callipers, though I haven't tried many others. There's some pros and cons to them all, I've settled on Kevlar resin for the front (I like the initial bite and there's no squeal) and sintered on the back (Which last longer)
https://www.discobrakes.com/?s=0&t=10&q=compounds&

Before you do change pads, just check that your rotors don't say "Resin only" on them. Some people do ignore that, though it's best to be informed before making that choice.

[ElCani]

Having cleaned the discs with IPA

Try a bitter next time?

[Ray]

^^^

[mikeymo]

Somebody said:

"If you are thinking of disc brakes then this means a new frameset and a new wheelset, and no going back once the die is cast. "

Spa Cycles do a Wayfarer frame, which has disc mounts and canti bosses. So that would give you choice, if you are happy with cantis (or maybe Vs) as the alternative.

I've got BB7s. Unlike another poster I found the curvy mounting washers a really easy way to get them aligned. And once set I've found them easy to adjust.

I use them with Sora R3000 brifters, which aren't a "proper" match, being NSSLR levers. I don't find them weak, though I wasn't overwhelmed by the stopping power. Compressionless cables may well help. They've always stopped me when I wanted to. I don't cycle fast, not above 25 mph, and not often at that speed.

I very briefly tried Sora disc brakes, R317s, in order to have a proper match between levers and calipers. I only fitted the front. I thought it was rubbish, compared to the BB7s, in terms of build quality, ease of set up, etc. If there was any more power, I couldn't feel it, but then I probably didn't spend long enough bedding the pads in. The "better" Shimano cable discs (CX77, R517?) may be an improvement.

I can't understand why Avid haven't brought out a modified BB7 to allow for NSSLR cable pull.

The solution to the mess of lever/caliper matching is this:

https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/components/brakes/disc-brakes/i-s-klamper/

The arm is interchangeable to suit different levers. I rang Paul (the company, not the chap) and asked exactly what "short pull" meant. And they said - to suit current Shimano/Sram type road levers. Campy pull is "super short". MTB is "long"

The apparent quality of the caliper, and the fact that they can be moved from bike to bike (road to MTB) by changing the arm, makes them the obvious choice. The two drawbacks are:

1. Price. But sometimes something is the right solution, and it costs. Though I haven't bought them, so make of that what you will.

2. Availability. You might not be able to get them, either at all, or in the colour you want. The chap at Paul freely admitted that they're hard to get, but they are in the process of expanding manufacturing. By building another factory.

[reohn2]

The stock pads on the Spyres are rubbish.

This caught my eye because I have been slightly disappointed with the mechanical TRP Spyres on my Spa Elan. Do you (or anyone else) have a recommendation for replacement pads for the Spyres, please?

I realise, of course, that brake effectiveness is influenced by more than just the pads. Having cleaned the discs with IPA, checked and adjusted the cable lines, squared off the ends of the outers and replaced the ferrules, lubed the inners, and kept an eye on pad clearance due to wear, I am wondering whether a change of pads might improve things. I should perhaps say that the brakes work pretty well, but I can't say they're an improvement on the rim brakes on my other bikes.
Perhaps I am expecting too much?

My experience with discs,both Spyres and BB7s is that both work equally well.
They're about the same in the dry as V's,marginally better than DPs and much better than cantis in the dry.
In the wet all bets are off and discs win hands down,working just as good as in the dry,whereas rim brakes,any rim brakes,in the wet can be very unpredictable,especially at slow speeds where V's can be very grabby and I've tried all kinds of rim brake pads the best being BBB Tristops for V's and Techstops for DPs.But I gavenup on rim brakes years ago.

My major gripes with Spyres was loud squealing in the wet that I couldn't remedy and the 3mm allen key adjusters which were a pain when needing adjustment on a ride,especially in mucky conditions when the holes get bunged up.

BB7s OTOH are easily adjusted via the big red knobs,easily set up and easily stripped and rebuilt when they need it.They rarely squeal and are troublefree.
I've changed BB7 pads on the trail quickly by removing the caliper from the bike(not post fit) leaving the cable attached,removing old and fitting new pads,set up the caliper and been riding within 20 minutes.
I use sintered pads in BB7s (usually Clarks but have used others)they work very well and last ages,whereas I can wear a pair of organic pads out in one or two mucky rides.
BB7s are quite simply the best of the bunch IME.

[Brucey]

Somebody said:

"If you are thinking of disc brakes then this means a new frameset and a new wheelset, and no going back once the die is cast. "

Spa Cycles do a Wayfarer frame, which has disc mounts and canti bosses. So that would give you choice, if you are happy with cantis (or maybe Vs) as the alternative....

I think that was me. A good point that some frames allow either type of brake but they are arguably neither fish nor fowl. If you run discs then you have unused canti-boss mountings on the frame, and if you run rim brakes, unused disc mounts.

"So what..?" I hear you say; well regardless of which type of brake you use, you are left with a steel fork which is stiff enough for a disc caliper to be mounted on, and IME that always means it is stiffer than you might choose to have with rim brakes.

If you have mainly used forks that are heavier built anyway ( which effectively means most steel forks with 1-1/8" steerers) you might be wondering what this is all about. However if you are used to, and appreciate, the subtle ride quality of a quality lightweight steel frameset, with ~25mm tyres (as the OP is, I think) then it is pretty much certain that anything steel with disc brakes is going to be a lot stiffer than you might otherwise choose. Upthread there is speculation that going to 28s might ease this; IME 32s might still not be enough.

Fundamentally, brakes are obviously important, a necessary evil if you like; but one which only sees much use a relatively small fraction of the time. If choosing a particular type of brake changes nearly everything else about a bike, especially when there is a desire for continuity of componentry, maybe it is not a good choice.

cheers

[peetee]

Thanks for all the contributions. Plenty to take in.
It’s clear that the jury is still out as to whether cable discs would offer any significant overall benefit vs a well set-up calliper when paired with the 4600 levers. I read elsewhere that the Shimano option is the one to get for those levers but, alas, no one here has that combination to be able to comment further. That only adds to the confusion as Avid and TRP brakes have plenty of supporters here. Additional power is not what I am after and I do like a brake that exhibits no wasted lever travel and good feedback so having the right cable pull is everything.
I think Brucey’s final statement sums up where I am with this and my best option is to stick with what I know and with the money I save stock up on spare rims and pads.

[Brucey]

the modulation with disc brakes is different from that of rim brakes. It varies from model to model of course but you might either love it or hate it. For example on the first MTB I had with disc brakes I would perhaps have chosen mechanical discs because of their simplicity. But the bike came with hydros and whilst they have their shortcomings one of the things I really value about them is good modulation; when the tyres are on the limit of adhesion this makes a big difference. Not as big a deal for most road riding I guess.

If you are undecided you probably need to ride some bikes with different brakes, but only longer acquaintance will tell you everything you need to know, hence my suggestion of a 'mule'/beater built using an old MTB. Such machines have obvious offroad potential too, a kind of DIY gravel bike if you like. That is also N+1, so what's not to like....?...

cheers

[iandusud]

Thanks for all the contributions. Plenty to take in.
It’s clear that the jury is still out as to whether cable discs would offer any significant overall benefit vs a well set-up calliper when paired with the 4600 levers. I read elsewhere that the Shimano option is the one to get for those levers but, alas, no one here has that combination to be able to comment further. That only adds to the confusion as Avid and TRP brakes have plenty of supporters here. Additional power is not what I am after and I do like a brake that exhibits no wasted lever travel and good feedback so having the right cable pull is everything.
I think Brucey’s final statement sums up where I am with this and my best option is to stick with what I know and with the money I save stock up on spare rims and pads.

Just to add some experience. On our tandem I have 4700 levers which I use with a short (90mm arm) v-brake on the front which works very well, so would be more than adequate on a solo. Despite the shorter arms there is plenty of clearance for a 1.6" tyre with mudguards and it could go bigger.

This is what I'm using. https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m7b0s101p29 ... i-V-Brakes

I also use a Spyre disc brake at the rear which so far has been good.

Ian