How oh how do you get a lockring off?

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rickbranton
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Postby rickbranton » 21 Jan 2021, 2:27pm

If possible hold the lock ring removal tool in a vice, place the wheel onto it and turn the wheel. It usually works for me.

Jdsk
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Postby Jdsk » 21 Jan 2021, 2:32pm

doffcocker wrote:I'm struggling to find the stuff you mentioned on Halfords, is this the sort of thing I should be looking for though?

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/engin ... 66317.html

That's a suitable dedicated penetrating fluid (and its existence is why I said not ordinary WD-40).

Jonathan

thirdcrank
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Postby thirdcrank » 21 Jan 2021, 2:34pm

rickbranton wrote:If possible hold the lock ring removal tool in a vice, place the wheel onto it and turn the wheel. It usually works for me.


Presumably, that includes keeping the sprockets held with the chainwhip?

If this has been over-tightened, then some form of increased leverage will be the only way short of destroying the lockring.

I must have posted before that there's an lbs not a million miles from here with a length of scaffold pipe painted blue and marked PARK TOOL, but I thought it was only for stubborn freewheels.

slowster
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Postby slowster » 21 Jan 2021, 2:54pm

doffcocker wrote:Admittedly I thought I'd try and get this done on the cheap, i.e. I found a very affordable chain whip and lockring set on Amazon and assumed it would do the job. And here is the little stinker:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08 ... UTF8&psc=1

I should stress that on the fourth picture down on the ad the spanner depicted isn't included. I did however manage to dig out an old one of my own that I was able to attach the lockring to (picture included) but even that didn't work. As you might be able to see also, the chainwhip has even started to bend under the pressure.

Cheap tools can sometimes be more than adequate and save quite a bit of money, especially for tasks for which you might use the tool only once or if you are the sort of person who assembles their own bikes and takes care to use grease/anti-seize, not to over-tighten fittings, and removes and regreases parts at appropriate intervals.

In contrast if parts have been assembled with no or insufficient grease/anti-seize, have been over-tightened, and/or have been neglected for years, good tools can save you money.

If the chainwhip has started to bend, it sounds like it simply is not strong enough. I cannot imagine my chainwhips bending; they have 5mm thick handles.

I would also be very wary of using a cheap chinese lock ring tool. If the tool itself is damaged that's no great loss, but I would be concerned that it might damage the lock ring splines if the fit/engagement was not good. For tasks involving a lot of torque and proprietary fittings like the splines on lock rings and bottom brackets, I would always get either the Shimano tool or the Park Tool equivalent.

I would also not use a ratchet driver (I've done it in the past and gotten away with it, but I was probably fortunate not to damage the ratchet mechanism). I would suggest either a long handled breaker bar or a large adjustable spanner (if necessary with a cloth around the handle and a long metal tube used to extend the length of the handle).

You might be able to get away without a new chainwhip. This video shows a method of using a chain and cable ties to prevent the freehub rotating, but I would make sure that I used the largest possible cable ties and several of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed1h8Wl33Zc

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Paulatic
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Postby Paulatic » 21 Jan 2021, 3:25pm

Have you tried getting the handles of the tools aligned so using both hands you squeeze them together to loosen. It’s worked for me in the past and my favoured position for pedal loosening.
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nsew
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Postby nsew » 21 Jan 2021, 3:55pm

Needs setting up right then give the end of the wrench a good sharp whack with a heavy hammer. If that doesn’t work, use more force.
Last edited by nsew on 21 Jan 2021, 4:07pm, edited 1 time in total.

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531colin
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Postby 531colin » 21 Jan 2021, 4:02pm

rickbranton wrote:If possible hold the lock ring removal tool in a vice, place the wheel onto it and turn the wheel. It usually works for me.


No, you must turn the cassette with a chain whip. If you turn the wheel, you can tighten the lockring, or going the other way it will freewheel.
Unless you have a freewheel block instead of a cassette and freehub.

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531colin
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Postby 531colin » 21 Jan 2021, 4:05pm

Paulatic wrote:Have you tried getting the handles of the tools aligned so using both hands you squeeze them together to loosen. It’s worked for me in the past and my favoured position for pedal loosening.

^^^^THIS. Squeezing with both hands you can exert a lot of force.
(OTOH I undo pedals by strapping the opposite pedal to the chainstay.)

Jdsk
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Postby Jdsk » 21 Jan 2021, 4:07pm

531colin wrote:
Paulatic wrote:Have you tried getting the handles of the tools aligned so using both hands you squeeze them together to loosen. It’s worked for me in the past and my favoured position for pedal loosening.

^^^^THIS. Squeezing with both hands you can exert a lot of force.

A photo would be very helpful in adopting the position...

Thanks

Jonathan

colin54
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Postby colin54 » 21 Jan 2021, 4:18pm

This is my method, hold lockring tool on with quick-release (just ... slightly loose to allow the lockring movement as you initially untighten), use an adjustable or suitable size spanner as already mentioned above .
Using the quick release saves you losing some of your purchase force keeping the tool in place.
Place wheel on floor so you can get over spanner undo anti-clockwise whilst applying force on chain whip.

P1120820.JPG

The spanner might need to be in a slightly more anti -clockwise position than my quick photo.
Once the nut is initially loosened loosen the quick release as you continue to undo.
Good luck.

alexnharvey
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Postby alexnharvey » 21 Jan 2021, 4:23pm

colin54 wrote:This is my method, hold lockring tool on with quick-release (just ... slightly loose to allow the lockring movement as you initially untighten), use an adjustable or suitable size spanner as already mentioned above .
Using the quick release saves you losing some of your purchase force keeping the tool in place.
Place wheel on floor so you can get over spanner undo anti-clockwise whilst applying force on chain whip.

P1120820.JPG
The spanner might need to be in a slightly more anti -clockwise position than my quick photo.
Once the nut is initially loosened loosen the quick release as you continue to undo.
Good luck.


Good illustrative photo. Also, always bear in mind where your hands will end up if the part releases or the tool slips or breaks.

These 'cheap chinese lockring tools' are really pretty good and if the tool is well secured in the part to prevent it slipping out they work well. The same goes for the BB tools.

I do find chain whips a bloody PITA. Why don't they have a hook or something that would secure the loose end and stop it slipping off.

cyclop
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Postby cyclop » 21 Jan 2021, 4:33pm

Securing the tool is crucial.Unfortunately,with your design,the quick release spindle used to secure the tool is blocked by a guide peg.You need a hollow version of said tool.

colin54
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Postby colin54 » 21 Jan 2021, 4:55pm

cyclop wrote:Securing the tool is crucial.Unfortunately, with your design,the quick release spindle used to secure the tool is blocked by a guide peg.You need a hollow version of said tool.

Whoops ! Well spotted I never looked at the link to the tool he was using, the method I use can't work for the OP, unless the guide peg is removable ? I think a spanner still allows you to get over the nut a bit more though.
Could more leverage be applied if the tyre was removed perhaps, (if not using a vice), you must lose a bit of force deflecting the tyre, might be just enough to make a difference in this case ?

doffcocker
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Postby doffcocker » 21 Jan 2021, 5:28pm

alexnharvey wrote:
I do find chain whips a bloody PITA. Why don't they have a hook or something that would secure the loose end and stop it slipping off.


I actually invested in three of the four packages in the link.

The first two didn't include a lockring that fit my Shimano. The third one did, but unfortunately the chain on the chain whip has now snapped on two out of the three chain whips. I don't know if that's because they're just that cheap and nasty or if the lockring is just too tight full stop.

Does this Halfords one look any good?

https://www.halfords.com/cycling/bike-m ... 68252.html

alexnharvey
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Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Postby alexnharvey » 21 Jan 2021, 5:33pm

That doesn't sound such good quality if they are breaking. Do you have an old chain and a chaintool?
Last edited by alexnharvey on 21 Jan 2021, 5:36pm, edited 1 time in total.