Finicky locks in winter...?

[Brucey]

call me obtuse if you like but after the same thing happens several years in a row, I do tend to notice. Eventually....

So my carrier bike lives outdoors and gets used less in the wintertime (about once every three days instead of about twice as often as that). I know full well that if I leave the lock the wrong way up it will simply fill with water, so I don't do that. I also use spray lube inside the lock occasionally However the lock does sometimes tend to get a bit reluctant to, er, lock. Or unlock. This can cause much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The lock in question is similar to one of these



and the keys look a bit like this;



i.e. the keys are brass, symmetric, with a wiggly groove down both sides.

It is of course not a high security device but it at least looks a bit stronger than it really is and the bike doesn't look worth stealing anyway (so far....).

Anyway the pattern has (for the last few years) been thus; the lock has worked all summer long, no problems. It usually carries on working until about Christmas, and then it starts playing up. Spray lube seems to help but not as much as you might expect. Eventually the lock somehow 'cures itself' (with use?) and is then likely to be problem-free again all summer. Recently it was about as bad as it had ever been and I was only able to use it at all by virtue of discovering that the lock was susceptible to a knock on the side of the housing when turning the key; this made all the difference between it undoing (or locking again) and not. It was like that for about two weeks, but now it is pretty much cured (again).

My working hypothesis is that the lock does suffer with wet, but that it is condensation inside the lock which may be the culprit; the workings are inside a nice (insulating) plastic housing, so once they are cold they may stay cold long enough to pick up plenty of condensation inside; the plastic housing doesn't tend to get wet with condensation or stay wet, come to that . I'm guessing that critical parts inside the lock are made of plated steel, and that the plating has worn off, rendering the parts liable to rusting should there be water present, if they are not kept very well lubricated.

Has anyone else noticed anything similar?

I have another experience to report with a Kryptonite lock too.

cheers

[simonineaston]

An old locksmith once told me in no uncertain terms, not to use anything that came out of a spray on locks, but instead, use graphite powder instead. "Where am I going to get graphite powder?" I asked. He looked at me pityingly from over his pint and said, "Pencils, of course!"
Ever since then, I've taken his advice and rubbed a carpenter's pencil (they being big of lead) on a square of sandpaper, then shaken it off onto a piece of plain paper, folded & creased so that the powder runs cheerfully off the paper in one controlable direction, into the mechanism of the lock. Have to say it does seem to make them nice & smooth, but what would happen if it all got damp, I don't know...

[Brucey]

I can tell you what happens; if the lock internals are all brass, they may carry on working. However if there are any steel parts inside the lock, the graphite actually makes things worse by encouraging even faster corrosion than normal.

cheers

[Cyclewala]

I have a Kryptonite D lock at work and like Brucey, it's fine over the summer and into Autumn. Between December and February, it gets a little sticky and some penetrating lube gets it smooth again. Mine sits outside on a concrete path, but sheltered from falling rain by a roof running over the path. I too think it's condensation.

[nez]

Deleted - on reflection probably better not post my security arrangements!

[Zulu Eleven]

spray lube

huge variety of those, seldom much good

a few drops of good old-fashioned 3-in-one oil still takes some beating

[simonineaston]

I can tell you what happens; if the lock internals are all brass, they may carry on working. However if there are any steel parts inside the lock, the graphite actually makes things worse by encouraging even faster corrosion than normal...

I best stay inside when it rains, I guess!

[Steve]

You can buy graphite powder in the form of an aerosol which sprays it in via a volatile solvent - expensive given the size of the container, but designed as lock lubricant, and very effective for barrel locks.

[Brucey]

without any spray lube the insides of the lock soon go rusty and seize up. I usually use a water displacer (eg WD40 or GT85) and then something a bit more likely to persist like aerosol SFG, once the lock has freed up. The latter has the rationale that what is inside the lock can't possibly be any fiddlier than the insides of a shimano STI, so what works for one ought to work for the other.

Possibly this wasn't noticed by most readers of this thread previously but the tag attached to the keys;



specifically recommends using WD40 on the lock mechanism. I think the chances of it working for long without regular treatment of this kind are pretty slim.

cheers

[Jupestar]

I’ve lost a bike to a seized lock. Tried WD40, but was paranoid someone would think I was stealing it, and snapped the key.

I was too nervous to go back with anything more drastic.

It was there for ages, when they developed the shopping center and dug up cheapside it was moved on.

[Brucey]

Kryptonite lock; I recently got given a 'faulty' kryptonite lock. The thing is, this lock looked almost like new; only a little wear to the decals on the outsides of the lock and the keys looked unmarked. The lock mechanism appeared to be based on the Abloy design with disc tumblers, and there were no outward signs of forced entry. So I started to fiddle with it and at first there wasn't much cause for optimism.

Then I realised that the keys were not even entering the lock fully; there is no shoulder on the key to tell you when it is fully in the lock, and it regularly stopped part way; I wondered if that had happened previously . Forcing the lock then might well damage the key and/or the lock internals. [Because of the way the lock works, when the key won't turn, the load will be seen mostly by one or two discs rather than all of them, so it seems to me that this design of lock is susceptible to damage if the key is ever forced, moreso than many other designs...?] After about ten minutes of trying with the key fully inserted, the lock turned once. And then again. Much lubing, wigging of keys and just plain persistence made the lock work a few dozen times more.

I wondered if there were burrs on the keys, so I very carefully deburred one of them; not much effect. I then wondered if there were burrs on the discs inside the lock; I tried turning the key whilst applying an axial load either in or out and the lock definitely felt differently 'lumpy'.

All this while the hit rate of opening the lock wasn't getting that much better. I flushed the mechanism out with more GT85 than I had used previously and there was a surprising amount of finely divided brass that came out, which rather supported the forcing/burrs hypothesis.

Then a small breakthrough; I discovered that when the key (which has a small flat end to it where you hold it) was turned super-quickly, the lock tended to open more often. I found that it I allowed to the key to 'snap flat' suddenly between fingers and thumb, this provided enough speed to open the lock fairly consistently.

I spent half an hour or so doing this whilst watching TV, and following this sort of treatment and some more flushing, the lock has started to work fairly reliably.

I guess I'll never know what the true origin of the problem was, but it just shows that a little persistence can work out OK. I guess it rarely took me more than three or four minutes to get the lock open, but that is long enough to think hard about getting the angle grinder out. As it is the lock is almost first time every time now.

cheers

[2_i]

I use the same mixture for everything on the bike, from chain to keyhole in the lock. The two working substances in this case are T9 and LPS3. T9 thins the mixture and delivers LPS3 to the interior of the lock mechanism. I put it through the keyhole, but also from the locking side. Once T9 evaporates, it leaves LPS3 as a sticky wax paste filling the interior. Most often that is enough for preventing problems. However, in my area there are ice rains every once in a while and if one hits the lock, I must use a de-icing spray - there is no way out.

[philvantwo]

Assa abloy sell graphite powder in small bottles, I've been using it for the past 20 years and I don't think they'd recommend using it on £200 padlocks if it knackered them up.

[Jdsk]

Pencil "lead" contains clay as well as graphite...

Jonathan

[Brucey]

as I mentioned above there are differences in the materials used in locks. Expensive locks should be made with corrosion resistant internals, less expensive locks, not so much. If a lock is liable to become problematic through corrosion inside, no amount of graphite is going to help that. It will also not affect condensation in the same way, either.

Condensation is a weird one, in that if something is metal inside with a metal case, the condensation tends to form on the outside, and this has the effect of helping to dry any air that penetrates the workings. [Presumably the latent heat thus liberated also slows further cooling of the whole lock somewhat]. By contrast a bike lock with a plastic housing cover won't behave in the same way, inside or out. An oily film over the workings should help to deter condensation, by rendering the surfaces hydrophobic.

I am told that in some industries/environments they have (fairly recently) specifically excluded graphite-bearing lubricants as permissible, because of the effects on corrosion in some cases. I happen to think that you are often still better off with it than without it in some cases, provided it is accompanied by a suitable combination of other ingredients. But I certainly wouldn't expect a dry graphite lube to do much good inside a cheap lock, not if corrosion is the problem. And if an expensive lock is dirty inside or full of water, it may not be the best thing either.

One of the benefits of using a thin spray lube is that it helps to flush any debris there might be out of the lock, as per what happened with the faulty kryptonite lock above.

cheers