Spa Tourer kickstand

[gom]

Thank you all for the input on this thread, if the frame designer says don't put a kickstand on the bike then I'll follow the advice.

If I were new to kickstands a frame designer’s comments would certainly make me think. But I’ve been using for years.
1. The first CTC cycle-camping tour I went on, many (most?) of the others had kickstands, and I got one as soon as I got home. I find that finding somewhere to lean a fully-laden touring bike is not that easy.
2. I like on my MTB as it makes getting through gates easier. Hedges not good for bike support in my experience.
3. Very useful when out picking blackberries. Such hedges definitely not good for bike support.

So far so good, but who knows - the next time I use a kick-stand-ed bike something could break.

[531colin]

Thank you all for the input on this thread, if the frame designer says don't put a kickstand on the bike then I'll follow the advice.

If I were new to kickstands a frame designer’s comments would certainly make me think. But I’ve been using for years.
1. The first CTC cycle-camping tour I went on, many (most?) of the others had kickstands, and I got one as soon as I got home. I find that finding somewhere to lean a fully-laden touring bike is not that easy.
2. I like on my MTB as it makes getting through gates easier. Hedges not good for bike support in my experience.
3. Very useful when out picking blackberries. Such hedges definitely not good for bike support.

So far so good, but who knows - the next time I use a kick-stand-ed bike something could break.

At last, a real expert. Would you be good enough to go through this thread https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=120018 and tell the forum members who have crushed their chainstays exactly where they went wrong?
On the subject of frame design, there are a couple of other threads where we could do with your input.
Here https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=144874 about determining correct BB axle length, and here https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=144841 with reference to steering geometry.
Thanks in anticipation.

[Ianwhitwell]

I bought a 'click-stand' from an American guy who makes them to order, as a treat following the purchase of my new Spa Elan 725. 'A treat'? as by the time I'd included various bits and pieces and spares it was not cheap, though very well made. But I'm sure a competent person could make their own with a bit of time. Mine fits in my handlebar bag or on an adapted and supplied pump bracket next to my bottler cage for when I'm not using my handlebar bag. works great by the way.
http://www.click-stand.com

[markjohnobrien]

Clicked the link and it’s a totally different concept to the traditional kick stand- looks interesting, but I still wouldn’t risk it my bikes as I don’t like scratched or damaged paintwork or tubing.

[gom]

At last, a real expert...

Hmmm...
I was intending to make the point that I don’t know enough to know about frame damage, but that I do find a stand too useful to give up on them.

If I did not use one, maybe after all these posts I never would. One of the reasons for these forums is to get expert advice to make things better and safer. However after 20 years of use I’m willing to keep taking the risk. (Not a good argument for keeping up a 60-a-day habit, and maybe a bad one here, but they’re my bikes.) What I do disagree with is the view that a kickstand is no use. Examples listed previously.

If I find a cracked or bent frame one day maybe I’ll be brave enough to post a photo here, and we can all have a good laugh. I’m not disagreeing that it might happen.

For those who have damaged a frame, well you were not alone when you did think stands were a good idea.

[LittleGreyCat]

I went down this route when I bought my brand new Spa Wayfarer.

My previous bikes (since I was a kid) always had some kind of stand, and my current MTB (1995ish) has a kick stand and seems none the worse for it.
Noting that the frame would be considered robust!

However the frame designer for the Spa Wayfarer (waves at 531colin) said that the particular frame I was buying was not designed to take a kick stand and could very easily be damaged, especially when the bike was fully loaded for touring.
[I kind of ignored the associated "why would you even want one?" from various sources.]
From this I decided that all frames are different and if the designer says it isn't suitable then that is a pretty good hint.

I find it a pain at times not having a kick stand but I have modified my behaviour to compensate.

[pwa]

I don't use stands and have never understood why anyone would want to carry that lump of extra weight just to avoid having to find a wall, gate or lamp post to lean the bike on. But if I did want a stand I would design a fitting that spreads the load and doesn't damage the tubes. I would look at the materials available, possibly including mouldable stuff based on epoxy, and shape-able stuff like wood, and make a block that fits to the bike in a non-damaging way and uses some parts from a commercially available stand. I'm sure it can be done, but it might need a bit of creative "bodging".

[PT1029]

A lot of the time I don't have the need for a kick/prop stand. I sometimes would like one in a busy pub garden/cafe on club rides when leaning places are in short supply. The only place I really miss a stand is some campsites where the choice is lock you bike to something solid far away, or lay it on the ground by the tent (so if it rains, water can run into the bearings).
So no stand yet, but this thread has focussed my mind on the potential technical frame issues.
Weight? - have a pee (or more!) before you set off!

[Mike Sales]

The only place I really miss a stand is some campsites where the choice is lock you bike to something solid far away, or lay it on the ground by the tent (so if it rains, water can run into the bearings).

I tie a guy line to the top tube so that the bike, in leaning away, maintains the tension. If the bike is stolen the tent will collapse, so that you are woken and can struggle out through the folds of the collapsed tent and pursue the thief!
A length of cord and an extra tent peg can do the job.

[PT1029]

Which reminded me, I used to years ago sometimes wrap a guy line a few times round the bottom of my seat post and peg each side to hold it up. I think that should avoid the chain stay tails of woe mentioned up thread. The fact I had forgotten about it is perhaps in indication of how infrequently I camp in places with no near by leaning post.
My tent fails the bike security test and will stay standing upright with no guy ropes used!

[Cyckelgalen]

What about kickstands that mount both on the seat stay and the chain satay? It appears to me that they are less likely to damage the fame, the forces they exert on the tubes are lateral and they don't need to be mounted extremely tight on the tubes. So they could probably bend but not crush the tubing The Esge Multi Zoom is an example.

[markjohnobrien]

Each to their own, but I’ve never seen the need, or thought of a benefit, to having a kickstand added on a heavily loaded touring bike: I always find somewhere to lean my bike against, whether wall, fence, post box, tree, and in the countryside, field gate.

The demerits are manifold: crushing and damaging my nice steel tubing along with ruining the paintwork. Shudder.

Of course, if you buy a frame with an appropriately designed and well thought out bracket which is suitable for the attendant stresses and strains as judged by the manufacturer, that’s fine. But adding a post market design, no way. More potential trouble for minimal or no benefit.

[st599_uk]

I bought a 'click-stand' from an American guy who makes them to order, as a treat following the purchase of my new Spa Elan 725. 'A treat'? as by the time I'd included various bits and pieces and spares it was not cheap, though very well made. But I'm sure a competent person could make their own with a bit of time. Mine fits in my handlebar bag or on an adapted and supplied pump bracket next to my bottler cage for when I'm not using my handlebar bag. works great by the way.
http://www.click-stand.com

His current site news is that he's refusing to register with HMRC for UK VAT collection. Hopefully that will change or getting one could become problematic.

[531colin]

What about kickstands that mount both on the seat stay and the chain satay?.........

See first page

[Eman Resu]

I bought a 'click-stand' from an American guy who makes them to order, as a treat following the purchase of my new Spa Elan 725. 'A treat'? as by the time I'd included various bits and pieces and spares it was not cheap, though very well made. But I'm sure a competent person could make their own with a bit of time. Mine fits in my handlebar bag or on an adapted and supplied pump bracket next to my bottler cage for when I'm not using my handlebar bag. works great by the way.
http://www.click-stand.com

My home made 'click stand' was a two piece modified trekking pole. I've used it for several tours and found it useful if a bit awkward (need to secure the front brake to prevent a topple). However now that I have tourer with a under/behind BB kick-stand braze on I have resorted to the mother of all kickstands: the mighty Ursus Jumbo which has the added feature of allowing me to fettle with and service the transmission while parked. Each to their own, I humbly advise.